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When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

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Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#61

Post by mmooss »

potato3732842 wrote: post #57
mmooss wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that it's physically difficult. The OP very strongly disagrees, as do other descriptions I've read. People here are talking about all farm work as the same thing; I think that betrays complete ignorance.

I'm sorry, but this hand wringing is just a joke. Farm work ain't great. It's repetitive and rarely if ever ergonomic. There's plenty of reasons anybody who can do something more skilled or better paid does. But it's way less taxing than just about any job where the tool used is a shovel or sledgehammer. Yeah, if your frame of reference is skilled work or office work it all sucks but there's very much degrees to it.

If you ridicule people, does it enhance or reduce your credibility? Does it make your argument stronger or weaker?

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#62

Post by TrackerFF »

Growing up in Norway, picking strawberries was always a typical summer job for teens. You'd get bussed to the field, be crouched down all day under scorching heat, and...well, it sucked. Just sucked. And the pay was piss poor.

Pretty much any summer job would pay more, and in the end less and less teens decided to pick strawberries. Farmers complained, and then started flying inn south-east Asian rice farmers to pick berries instead. Relative to their pay back home, picking berries in Norway was a pretty sweet deal. Many still go there annually to pick during berry season.

They live cramped in a cottage, and work all day. If it's a good season, they make good money. If it's a bad season, they break even. Unfortunately there are some pretty scummy farmers that will exploit the situation. Here's a short docu following Thai pickers in Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW1QWG3xSNg

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#63

Post by UncleOxidant »

ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

I worked in strawberry & bean fields (as well as bucking hay) in Oregon when I was a teen in the 70s. It was really common then to work a couple of summers to save up for a used car or for college money.

> Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time

I don't think immigration was what killed those jobs for citizen teens. I think it was more like rising prosperity such that they didn't want to do those jobs anymore. I can recall teens regularly canvassing the neighborhood in the 90s asking if we wanted our lawn mowed. But that stopped by around 2000. It's unheard of now. Immigration didn't stop them from doing that, it was more of a cultural shift that caused them not to desire to do that kind of work anymore.

[and sure, immigrants have taken over the lawn maintenance field, but their prices aren't cheap - most of them charge a few $hundred just to start service which is generally in the $200/month range now where I'm at. Teens could undercut these prices easily and still do well, but they don't seem interested]

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#64

Post by glial »

TrackerFF wrote: post #62

Growing up in Norway, picking strawberries was always a typical summer job for teens. You'd get bussed to the field, be crouched down all day under scorching heat, and...well, it sucked. Just sucked. And the pay was piss poor. Pretty much any summer job would pay more, and in the end less and less teens decided to pick strawberries. Farmers complained, and then started flying inn south-east Asian rice farmers to pick…

Farms in the US do the exact same thing with Mexicans for berry farming.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#65

Post by Stevvo »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #20

is "Migrant" a euphemism here for "illegal migrant"? If your business needs illegal labour, then it's not a viable business, and it should die. If your pay is so low that no one wants to do your work, why should you be able to break the law with impunity because your business can't compete? Innovate, or die.

No, it is not. Try reading the article before attempting to so drastically change the framing.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#66

Post by LAC-Tech »

rib3ye wrote: post #43
LAC-Tech wrote: post #20

is "Migrant" a euphemism here for "illegal migrant"? If your business needs illegal labour, then it's not a viable business, and it should die. If your pay is so low that no one wants to do your work, why should you be able to break the law with impunity because your business can't compete? Innovate, or die.

Would you rather your tax dollars were used to subsidize farmers or do you just want to pay more for food?

You know what would make farming even cheaper? Child labour. So would indentured servitude. Or why not consider slavery? After all we've established that we're fine with breaking the law so that certain industries have lower operating costs, so these should all be on the table. No one wants to pay more for food.

Besides, child slaves do the jobs Americans don't want to do! You're socially immoral if you don't support it.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#67

Post by jonfw »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #63
ipnon wrote: post #2

This sounds quite sinister but it was a common summer job in Iowa for teenagers. You could make enough in a summer to buy a used car. Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time. You had to work long hours in the sun and heat but it was "an honest day's work."

I worked in strawberry & bean fields (as well as bucking hay) in Oregon when I was a teen in the 70s. It was really common then to work a couple of summers to save up for a used car or for college money. > Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time I don't think immigration was what killed those jobs for citizen teens…

If you think lawn care is expensive now, you’d think it was crazy expensive if the labor was only done by citizens!

Teens would be much more likely to mow lawns if the lawn care market had more money in it.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#68

Post by UncleOxidant »

jonfw wrote: post #67
UncleOxidant wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in strawberry & bean fields (as well as bucking hay) in Oregon when I was a teen in the 70s. It was really common then to work a couple of summers to save up for a used car or for college money. > Because of immigration these jobs are not really available for citizens anymore. I haven't heard of any teenagers taking this work in some time I don't think immigration was what killed those jobs for citizen teens…

If you think lawn care is expensive now, you’d think it was crazy expensive if the labor was only done by citizens! Teens would be much more likely to mow lawns if the lawn care market had more money in it.

Teens (and tweens) used to do the bulk of the lawn care that homeowners didn't do themselves. I don't think we'll ever get back to that even if all of the immigrants were to be deported. They're just not interested in doing this kind of work anymore.

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#69

Post by sugarplant »

astrange wrote: post #30
cjbgkagh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trump team has already stated they are limiting deportations to criminal illegals, so I guess just people who are in the US illegally and have committed a separate crime. This is before any real opposition has been mounted where it’s expected he’ll cave anyway. Trump is more likely to start a war with Iran than he is to do any sort of mass deportation. Also a weird thing is happening with automation, it’s getting…

[flagged]

wow what a level headed nuanced political take

Re: When the U.S. tried to replace migrant farmworkers with high schoolers (2018)

#70

Post by wrp »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #68
jonfw wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think lawn care is expensive now, you’d think it was crazy expensive if the labor was only done by citizens! Teens would be much more likely to mow lawns if the lawn care market had more money in it.

Teens (and tweens) used to do the bulk of the lawn care that homeowners didn't do themselves. I don't think we'll ever get back to that even if all of the immigrants were to be deported. They're just not interested in doing this kind of work anymore.

Picking strawberries in Oregon was my first job, and I progressed through the usual things kids did for money then, so I know where you're coming from. However, there is a major economic change we also need to consider. It used to be you could earn enough over the summer to buy a usable car or pay college tuition. Can a kid even come close to that now? If those jobs can no longer benefit kids to the same degree, avoiding them might actually be the most rational choice. I say this even though I appreciate the diligence I see in young people who had some early experience of working.
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