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Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

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Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#61

Post by resource_waste »

homebrewer wrote: post #24
resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

Good enough for what? I've been playing around with local models that often get mentioned here (llama3.3, mistral, etc.) and they routinely provide incorrect code that does not even compile or implements algorithms that have nothing to do with the task at hand, generate invalid JSON like '{ "foo": bar - 42 }', write nonsensical statements like "CR1616 has double the capacity of CR2032", etc. I'm yet to find a useful…

I use it as a confidant for bouncing ideas and situations. I will specifically ask it to use dialectics, or phenomenology, or whatever.

Otherwise, I just use the higher quality stuff online. I only use local stuff if I specifically don't want the data saved.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#62

Post by resource_waste »

jsheard wrote: post #18
resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

Can it really be called efficient in the capitalist sense until they figure out how to actually turn this stuff into a viable business? Apparently OpenAI is even losing money on the new $200/month tier. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sam-altman-says-losing-money-...

I have the local models, why am I supposed to care how a young company is wasting money?

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#63

Post by resource_waste »

redeux wrote: post #22
resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

I'm not sure how a few multinational mega corporations "competing" with each other is an impressive example of capitalist market efficiency. After all, this is isn't GPTx vs Gemini vs Llama vs Claude - it's Microsoft vs Google vs Meta vs Amazon. None of which are fair actors in the global marketplace.

We have offline models and multiple online models of growing high quality.

Its impressive.

(and if you want to see the flip side, our regulatory captured Medical industry still uses faxes)

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#64

Post by resource_waste »

koe123 wrote: post #30
resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

I think you could argue that competition indeed makes the market efficient, but that we shouldn't conflate that with capitalism itself. Capitalism, in my opinion, can at times prevent competition due to the required capital investment to compete. E.g. even OpenAI with their golden bullet couldn't get there without the capital investments from big tech? Might be wrong here of course.

I specifically mentioned Capitalism because it required the investment.

It was Capitalism, not market efficiency.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#65

Post by jsheard »

resource_waste wrote: post #62
jsheard wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it really be called efficient in the capitalist sense until they figure out how to actually turn this stuff into a viable business? Apparently OpenAI is even losing money on the new $200/month tier. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sam-altman-says-losing-money-...

I have the local models, why am I supposed to care how a young company is wasting money?

Every local model worth a damn is also the product of a company wasting money, so if you want better local models in the future then it's still your problem.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#66

Post by resource_waste »

Mistletoe wrote: post #27
resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

> The competition has been the best type of brutal. I’d counter with “The competition has been the worst type of brutal.” https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ai-destroyed-google-promise-c... Tech’s quest for the best chatbot so they get all the grift dollars has torched climate change progress.

What about the patient that got their misdiagnosed illness finally solved?

What is more important, the pains of Humans, or exhaustion of resources.

You want to go tell patients that rocks in the ground and unconcious trees are more important than their pain? Or tell a student that their educational future is less important than tress?

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#67

Post by kridsdale1 »

pottertheotter wrote: post #34
jsheard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem to gel with the fact that they lost $5 billion overall last year, mostly before the $200 tier was even available.

They said profitable unit economics, not profitable as a company.

So P/L incrementally, ignoring capex and salary?

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#68

Post by koe123 »

resource_waste wrote: post #64
koe123 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could argue that competition indeed makes the market efficient, but that we shouldn't conflate that with capitalism itself. Capitalism, in my opinion, can at times prevent competition due to the required capital investment to compete. E.g. even OpenAI with their golden bullet couldn't get there without the capital investments from big tech? Might be wrong here of course.

I specifically mentioned Capitalism because it required the investment. It was Capitalism, not market efficiency.

Fair enough!

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#69

Post by ryandvm »

resource_waste wrote: post #11

The AI race is one of the most impressive examples of Capitalism making the market efficient. Or at least I've witnessed in my life. We went from Google having complete control. To Open AI releasing GPT2 which really inspired a lot of people to try it. Then GPT3+ convinced the world to try it. After that, Gemini, LLaMa, every type of fine-tune... The noteworthy thing is that LLaMA was good enough that ChatGPT had com…

I will agree that the free market has really shined here as far as product development is concerned. I have a hard time believing any government effort short of a war-time incentive would have produced anywhere near the same results.

That said, I think we're also going to see exactly where capitalism always fails - the negative externalities. If AI goes off the rails and ends up deliberately or incidentally wiping us off the globe, it's likely to be because of this relatively unregulated space race.

Re: Nvidia releases its own brand of world models

#70

Post by Keyframe »

brookst wrote: post #52
Keyframe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing, in the same way that TSMC could cut Nvidia and OpenAI out. one thing is not like the other.

They’re exactly alike. The question is “why doesn’t an upstream supplier just use its own products and cut their customers out?” If you prefer, we can ask why TSMC doesn’t cut Nvidia out and just design AI chips. It gets to the same place: expertise as a supplier in one stage of a value chain is not fungible to all stages.

I disagree. Nvidia designs chips and has demonstrated it can move between manufacturers (TSMC to Samsung). TSMC does not have know-how to design nvidia level of chips or develop supporting infrastructure (software and sales) because a) they have demonstrated they don't have any b) other players which do have capacity like AMD and Intel have also demonstrated they don't have any.

Nvidia can move its vertical, TSMC not really. If you would've mentioned Apple for example, then maybe.. since that know-how is licensable to an extent (Arm).

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