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uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

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Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#61

Post by formerly_proven »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #43
jszymborski wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. When things are horrible around us, there is a strong temptation to throw ones hands up in apathy and let the rot fester. "Eh, Honey is probably selling my data but I got $5 off my new mattress, so wtv". We need to resist that call to apathy, stop acquiescing, and start demanding better of others. That, incidentally, often starts at demanding better of ourselves.

I disagree that it’s down to the individuals. While individuals can throw themselves into the gears of the machine it is understandable why they do not. I see things in terms of a sharecropping analogy, feudal lords (corrupted government) allow the scammers to harvest the crop (victims) for a share of the proceeds. We cannot fix people to the point they are un-scammable and there does not exist a democratic force str…

> I disagree that it’s down to the individuals.

Individual action is known to be so inefficient that the oil&gas industries poured money into promoting the idea of the personal climate footprint.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#62

Post by cjbgkagh »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #55
cjbgkagh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it’s down to the individuals. While individuals can throw themselves into the gears of the machine it is understandable why they do not. I see things in terms of a sharecropping analogy, feudal lords (corrupted government) allow the scammers to harvest the crop (victims) for a share of the proceeds. We cannot fix people to the point they are un-scammable and there does not exist a democratic force str…

Absolutely! I think this was kind of what OP was driving at with the suggestion to "start demanding better of others." It doesn't work to expect they should do better from their own motivation, we need to fix the broken incentives and consequences that result in those bad decisions being attractive.

While I agree with that ideal I’m not sure how realistic it is. Trump was elected on a populist platform and quickly betrayed his base again, this time before he has even taken office. What are people to do, vote harder? It’s not like Kamala would have fixed this either. If Kamala had a better chance of winning the ‘Tech Titans’ wouldn’t have switched teams. They would have done anything the government asked for so long as the scamming ad revenue kept flowing.

If we mean ‘we tech workers’ then you’ll just be replaced, just like how I was when I quit being a researcher at FANG companies over this and other ethical concerns. The only observable outcome is that my clear conscious came with the cost that I’m far poorer than I could have been. I’m lucky as I’m still well off but not everyone can make that call and survive. These scamming behaviors are trivial to detect and especially so at the large internet company level. It exists on these platforms because the owners want them to.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#63

Post by throwaway4659 »

jszymborski wrote: post #28
cjbgkagh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad pushes out the good until you’re only left with bad. A system that tolerates bad actors like this will in time only have bad actors. It’s tolerated because it makes a large amount of money for a small number of people.

This is exactly it. When things are horrible around us, there is a strong temptation to throw ones hands up in apathy and let the rot fester. "Eh, Honey is probably selling my data but I got $5 off my new mattress, so wtv". We need to resist that call to apathy, stop acquiescing, and start demanding better of others. That, incidentally, often starts at demanding better of ourselves.

I work for a very large company. I'm very close to throwing my hands up in apathy because the company keeps throwing the teams in our area into chaos and disarray with little regard for the humans in them.

We have no investors to answer to. We're printing money. Yet at every opportunity company leadership reveals itself as this slavering beast where the only people in positions of power have gotten there through duplicity and a lack of empathy.

The tech job market is terrible. I'm trapped in the guts of a machine that was supposed to be one of the "good ones".

I'm not sure there's anything to do for people who want to act ethically and be decent to each other if even the "good" companies show a complete lack of regard for anything but making their profits take off into the stratosphere.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#64

Post by ilbeeper »

jzb wrote: post #42
Suppafly wrote: post #22

As if Honey isn't already under enough fire with half the youtube world releasing videos about their shady practices.

Is really being "under fire" if it's just accurate reporting?

Justified fire is still fire

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#65

Post by throwawaysleep »

max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

Why?

I don’t see any incentives for decency.

Decency is as desired by society as “made locally.” Very few people are willing to pay for it and behaving that way he tremendous opportunity costs.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#66

Post by xen0 »

ndriscoll wrote: post #45
slowmovintarget wrote: post #2

If any software ever deserved being sued into non-existence it is the Honey browser extension, and any other scam software they turn out (Pie Adblock in this case). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4yL3YTwWk

From what I've gathered, honey basically replaced affiliate codes with their own and then gave the user part of the commission back? Is there something they did that users should be unhappy about?

It seems the voucher codes they 'find' are not the result of them searching the Web.

They are simply codes provided by partnered businesses and may be beaten by codes you can get by searching yourself.

If true, then this is them outright lying to the user.

And you know, if they don't find a coupon code for you, one might still be at least a little annoyed that the original 'salesman' didn't get their affiliate commission; it instead being pinched by another.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#67

Post by cjbgkagh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
cjbgkagh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be incumbent on Honey to check if these discounts are indeed public. 100% discounts would be an obvious place to start. Given that Honey claims to search the public internet for discounts according to their claims they can in fact do this. At the scale and resources of Honey the claim of ignorance becomes unreasonable. It would help their case if they had a made a documented good faith attempt, but I think…

Why would it be incumbent on Honey, or illegal at all? It is a voluntary transaction by two businesses. If the business does not want their codes given out, then they should not agree to Honey’s T&C.

Just because the user agrees to Honeys T&C does not mean the user has the right to share the coupon in that manner. The coupon originating company did not give the user the coupon with permission to share.

If it was a printed coupon and photocopied it would be obviously illegal, I’m not sure how the digital equivalent would not be illegal. If such a coupon was publicly available then it would be like if honey went and fetched you a new coupon instead of copying an existing one.

Even if the user says they have the right it doesn’t mean they do, and at what point does it become handling stolen goods. Consider a scrap dealer accepting a clearly stolen catalytic converter, would that still be illegal if the scrap dealer did not pay for it? How ‘clearly stolen’ would it have to be to be illegal. What is a reasonable amount of verification?

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#68

Post by rvnx »

api wrote: post #17
max_ wrote: post #9

Why can't people just run businesses decently without deception & scams? I'm sure they can be profitable. This deceptive behaviour actually makes the business loose customers in the long term.

Most do, but the scammers and hustlers often win. When you're scamming and hustling you don't have to do the real work, which means you can spend 100% of your time and energy marketing and you win there. I'm deeply pessimistic about the future of open source. A lot of people are going to give up on it as it becomes clear that it's just free labor for SaaS companies and hustlers. That and I expect far more supply chai…

AI is a great example of this. Search engines as well.

Legally and morally they should ask the permission for each content they crawl / ingest, but they do not.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#69

Post by erikerikson »

teamspirit wrote: post #58
cjbgkagh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it’s down to the individuals. While individuals can throw themselves into the gears of the machine it is understandable why they do not. I see things in terms of a sharecropping analogy, feudal lords (corrupted government) allow the scammers to harvest the crop (victims) for a share of the proceeds. We cannot fix people to the point they are un-scammable and there does not exist a democratic force str…

> I wish we had a democracy that could prevent this but we do not Doesn't this rely on us as the individual? We get the government we allow. We, humanity, could've had anything we wanted, this is what we gave ourselves.

It does and yet this seems to highly simplifying things.

Consider the US scoped studies studies showing that the population doesn't get what it wants. They showed that policy follows the whims of the wealthy even in the cases where the population overwhelmingly agrees on a contrary direction. So the data says "no", control has been removed from us.

Part of the complication is that the determined action of a few actors can efficiently spoil the efforts of communities.

Re: uBlock Origin GPL code being stolen by team behind Honey browser extension

#70

Post by rvnx »

gkoberger wrote: post #59
gonesilent wrote: post #19

paypal paid 2 billion for honey did all the devs leave?

Looks like they sold in 2020 for $4Bn, and both founders left two years later in March 2022. One founder started Pie, which basically seems like Honey with a slightly different angle. The other founder became a VC.

It looks more like Brave (the original idea), an adblocker that actually replaces ads and pays you rewards.
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