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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#61

Post by shoo_pl »

skwee357 wrote: post #49
junaru wrote: post #35

Can someone point me in the right direction on how cars submit the telemetry in the first place? Clearly some cellular technology is in use but this would require an eSIM or something from your local carrier. Do modern cars have "free internet" baked into them somehow that lets them upload this data? Whats the technology/protocol called ? How does it work in foreign countries with different carriers.

I rented a car recently in Germany. Before even connecting my iPhone via Apple CarPlay, the dashboard of the car displayed a 4G sign and had its own navigation system that seemed to be live. You also pay a “cross border” fee if you intend to drive the car outside Germany to other EU countries, and most mobile operators in the EU also include some sort of roaming across the EU. So I guess that could be one explanation…

This.

For a several years now, all new cars sold in EU must have an S.O.S. button that will call emergency services. As a result each and every car has some sort of SIM card built-in and a cellular plan that works across entire Europe.

This SIM card must be free, but its a gateway to things like upselling (pay us $XX and get a wifi in your car) and also a way for the manufacturer to have always-on connection with the car.

Some manufacturers (KIA/Hyundai, Ford, Toyota) offer complimentary free app that you can use to check car location, open/close it, turn on AC (hybrid/ev) etc. with option for more paid features.

Edit: As for the speed limit, its also Europe regulation from this year - car must know the speed limit and beep if you exceed it. Different manufacturers do it differently, but since this has been optional feature for so many years in every car, all manufacturers had this ready - and its mostly based on built-in navigation + road sign recognition. It could use cellular but since this has been feature for so long I don't think this is how it works in majority cases.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#62

Post by lifestyleguru »

junaru wrote: post #35

Can someone point me in the right direction on how cars submit the telemetry in the first place? Clearly some cellular technology is in use but this would require an eSIM or something from your local carrier. Do modern cars have "free internet" baked into them somehow that lets them upload this data? Whats the technology/protocol called ? How does it work in foreign countries with different carriers.

I always wondered how it's possible that Germany regularly announces some "5/6/7G breakthrough" or some ridiculous investments in mobile infrastructure of new frequencies, yet the mobile internet for individuals is so miserable and expensive. Their industries get all the broadband.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#63

Post by hnlmorg »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #38
harha wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is also quite involved by making sure that a car can’t simply be a car anymore but needs a lot of complex systems that may ore may not work as intended, like remote capabilities etc.

It's all part of a plan. The EU is very busy setting up the equivalent of the chinese "social credit". It started with "ESG" rating by banks (where you're already attributed an ESG rating depending on which companies you invest your money in) and now it's likely they'll be moving forward with computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far. Don't underestimate the glo…

Wow, someone has been reading too much Nationalistic propaganda.

There’s no need to talk about hypotheticals here, let’s look at a country that actually left the EU. The UK so far is worse off financially, has worse trade deals and literally no better “sovereignty” nor privacy since leaving the EU.

The real totalitarians are the national governments who claim they should operate without oversight and then blame everything on foreigners.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#64

Post by Earw0rm »

epolanski wrote: post #59
Earw0rm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critica…

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

Because Tesla isn't owned and controlled by a foreign government and military rival. (OK, Elon is a little too cosy with Putin for my liking, but not to that extent).

I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether a state that brings us disposable vapes, TikTok and throwaway fast fashion has our best interests at heart.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#65

Post by saghm »

reacharavindh wrote: post #46
oellegaard wrote: post #13

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door. The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons. You can't c…

I don’t think Mercedes is owned by VW.. may be you thought of Audi..

I think they might have been only saying that Skoda is owned by VW? The fact that the referred to "both companies" after that made me assume that, although I know next to nothing about cars (and hadn't even heard of Skoda before, but maybe it's not as well known to Americans like me).

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#66

Post by f1shy »

epolanski wrote: post #59
Earw0rm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critica…

2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, peopl…

I do not think 2 is ridiculous. Not at all! But I agree we should fear that from all vehicles, no matter what make.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#67

Post by jll29 »

oellegaard wrote: post #13

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door. The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons. You can't c…

Refuse to sign any agreements about data collection (even for rental cars!), read the small print, if you are a EU citizen, send them GDPR Data Subject and then Data Deletion requests according to Article 17! https://noyb.eu/en/your-right-erasure-article-17#:~:text=Wha....

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#68

Post by f1shy »

dirkt wrote: post #52
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much…

> they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access

That is no little difference my friend!!!

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#69

Post by f1shy »

lnsru wrote: post #25
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

I guess it’s the lack of everything in a partially state owned company. Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Act They don’t really think about competition. That’s an arena for power fights, empire building and incompetence on every level. Think about software and Cariad disaster. Cars were a byproduct. Germans associated them for generations with good life and bought without thinking. I would say,…

I just keep hearing the same point of inflection, about golf 5. Then there was a big decline, not only VW, but all the others also. What happened?!

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#70

Post by bluGill »

dirkt wrote: post #52
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much…

More importantly also give people a way to check and use that date. Is my employee using the car personally (a violation of the laws allowing me to deduct the car)? did my employee really use the correct route? is my wife cheating on me? Did my kids really go to the library or were they racing across town?

the above is all I can come up with. For many none of that applies and so the data can only be used against us.

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