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In praise of the hundred page idea

tracydurnell.com

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Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#61

Post by johngossman »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #54
johngossman wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we’re on the subject of reading advice, here’s mine. If I really want to learn something, like the history of the Russian Revolution, I have to read it three times. So, I’d read Pipes, then read Antony Beevor, then read China Mieville, then triangulate. Pick any three authors. Pipes was definitely conservative, but there is no such thing as completely objective history, especially on a topic like the Russian Re…

I actually read Fitzpatrick's book on the Russian Revolution first. Her view was a lot different from that of Pipes, and I didn't feel well-positioned to adjudicate. That's where my issue comes from. I don't think reading a 3rd book would solve it. Pipes' account resonated better with my view of human nature, but maybe that's just my bias creeping in ;-) Maybe the trick is to initially focus on well-studied areas of…

That's basically my strategy: try to start with more factual accounts. Sometimes, I start with the shorter accounts. Then move to the more opinionated or specific histories. It all depends on how closely you want to study a particular topic.

I'm just saying I don't feel like I know even the basic facts until I've seen them at least three times.

I don't have any other specific "authoritative" books to recommend. Maybe one of the Lenin or Stalin biographies? And Dr. Zhivago, of course...

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#62

Post by aguaviva »

kome wrote: post #57
aguaviva wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even by right-wing ones—so, basically his own camp Snyder isn't right-wing at all. Where did that come from?

Snyder has been defined ad “nolte with an NPR tote bag” (Nolte being the Ernst Nolte) for his work comparing communism with nazism https://jacobin.com/2023/01/soviet-union-memorials-nazi-germ...

Snyder has been defined as “Nolte with an NPR tote bag”

The difference between you and I is that when I encounter a blunt, ad hominem smear like this (noticed the unsourced formulation "A colleague says ...", in the same way that Trump says things like "People say she's a Marxist" to cheering crowds), I tend to go, "Okay, another vitriolic rant. Am I going to have time to finish ploughing through this? Probably not."

Whereas your gut take seems to be some form of: "Yesss! Score one for the team! Where can I get more of this stuff?"

The article is full of other raw insinuations, and plainly broken argumentation that should be jumping out at you.

But go ahead, read whatever you want, and import whichever memes you want.

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#63

Post by johngossman »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #55
johngossman wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we’re on the subject of reading advice, here’s mine. If I really want to learn something, like the history of the Russian Revolution, I have to read it three times. So, I’d read Pipes, then read Antony Beevor, then read China Mieville, then triangulate. Pick any three authors. Pipes was definitely conservative, but there is no such thing as completely objective history, especially on a topic like the Russian Re…

BTW, Pipes was so hard on Lenin that he made me start thinking perhaps communism might've actually worked* if it wasn't for that Lenin guy. * by "worked", I mean evolved into something more functional, benevolent, and incentives-aligned, perhaps akin to Nordic social democracy, or perhaps something novel

You're on to one of the biggest controversies of all: were all the big things that happened (an almost infinite list of almost infinite badness) due to Stalin, or was it Lenin, or did it all go bad starting with Marx? Or the French Revolution? Much ink and much blood spilled over those questions. Animal Farm touches on it (Orwell was a socialist but hated Stalin). Solzhenitsyn came to the opposite conclusion: that the Gulag and the purges started with Lenin. I don't think it will ever be settled.

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#64

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

kome wrote: post #59
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snyder is right-wing? News to me! (Speaking of right-wing historians, does anyone have thoughts on Richard Pipes? Specifically his book on the Russian Revolution. I found it fascinating, but it has been criticized, and I'm not sure how much credence to give the critiques.)

yeah, Snyder is right-wing: "Snyder’s “century of blood,” with its “twinned totalitarianisms,” has become a new “common-sense,” liberal talking point — “Nolte with an NPR tote bag,” as a colleague put it. His Bloodlands is just a more sophisticated rendering of suggestive correlation between Nazism and the Soviet Union, legitimizing formerly fringe-nationalist dogmatic talking points, while hiding behind extremely pr…

Is there anyone besides Jacobin who claims Snyder is right-wing? Of course from Jacobin's perspective, nearly everyone is right-wing.

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#65

Post by tacitusarc »

tolerance wrote: post #33
tacitusarc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inundate is a synonym for “overwhelm”. I do not believe one can be ready to be overwhelmed, definitionally.

I am readily disposed and immediately available to be overcome and overpowered by the tome. It is my expectation. I am prepared. As unreasonable as that may sound to you, what use is a book these days otherwise?

Not unreasonable; rather, nonsensical.

I understand that you’re trying to be poetic, and I can appreciate both the goal and the underlying sentiment, I just don’t think the linguistic construction works.

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#66

Post by tolerance »

tacitusarc wrote: post #65
tolerance wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am readily disposed and immediately available to be overcome and overpowered by the tome. It is my expectation. I am prepared. As unreasonable as that may sound to you, what use is a book these days otherwise?

Not unreasonable; rather, nonsensical. I understand that you’re trying to be poetic, and I can appreciate both the goal and the underlying sentiment, I just don’t think the linguistic construction works.

What word(s) do you think would be more appropriate?

Re: In praise of the hundred page idea

#67

Post by cauch »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #49
cauch wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand for a novel or something. But for an essay, not finishing it is sometimes not finishing the argument and therefore not understanding the point at all. I guess the article's point is that an essay is presenting one idea in the smallest amount of sentences possible. Imagine you do that and get an essay with 100 pages. It means that 90 pages is not enough to understand the idea. Now, imagine I uselessly tri…

An essay collection is multiple essays. As for one 100-page essay, you should definitely be able to understand the idea within 90 pages (hopefully 10 pages). The author might need 100 pages to close off all major counterarguments, cite precedence, explore some second-order tradeoffs, underscore the importance of their argument using evidence, and lay the groundwork for future areas of investigation. We could say "jus…

That does not change anything to my point: saying "just stop reading a novel whenever you want" is not incompatible with "essays should get to the point".

Even if you are right, you still acknowledge that you need a "core" explanation for the essay and that stopping before finishing it is not enough to grasp the idea properly. The only things the author of the article says is that it's better if the core explanation is not stretched in length for no real reason. So, it demonstrates that it is not the same as for a novel. The so-called "paradox" or "hypocrisy" does not exist.

It's like pretending that someone is hypocritical if they both say "I like movies where the main character does a lot of fighting" and "I really don't like the fact that my physics professor does a lot of fighting during their lecture".

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