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Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

nytimes.com

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#61
post #28

[flagged]

> well supported scientific explanations that are politically unpleasant—you need to pay more for energy, criminals are low IQ and low impulse control

Do you mean to say that low IQ and low impulse control are the "well supported scientific" explanation for crime?

That seems wildly improbable. Ted Kaczynski being the obvious counterexample, but there are many other premeditated criminals who are intelligent. And that's only if we narrow "crime" to mean violent crime against people/things, but if we add in financial crimes/fraud/etc. this becomes even more easily disprovable.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#62

The climate is changing and is affecting regions we knew would be impacted by climate change 30+ years ago. The insurance companies cannot make a profit (and thus would not choose to operate) in these areas now that they're being impacted by climate change. On one hand this seems like the market working exactly as it should be. People should've moved out of these regions in the last 30 years given the information abo…

> The climate is changing and is affecting regions we knew would be impacted by climate change 30+ years ago. The insurance companies cannot make a profit (and thus would not choose to operate) in these areas now that they're being impacted by climate change. On one hand this seems like the market working exactly as it should be. People should've moved out of these regions in the last 30 years given the information about climate change, but they didn't.

The businesses[1] invest in fossil fuels. Meanwhile the humans keep living in dead-end locations for emotional and illiquid nonsense reasons, like “my parents” or “my job” or “stability for my children’s upbringing”. Then when the stove gets too hot Capital can just move. No skin off its back.

Yeah that sounds exactly like the market that I know is supposed to be working.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42450560

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>know, for a near certainty, that I'm never going to use. That's what most people say right up until they make a claim.

I don't want to make any claims, though. I'd be much happier in a position where I'm totally unable to make claims. (And don't have to deal with the insurance industry.) I'd even pay good money for (de facto-) fake insurance, just so mandates and overly-bureaucratic clients/partners leave well enough alone.

I don't want to make any claims, though.

I think you're missing the point of why these "overly-bureaucratic clients" are insisting on insurance. I don't want you to have insurance to keep you safe, I need you to have insurance to keep me safe. When the widget you built for me breaks and damages my customer and I end up owing them €1m, I want to be able to recoup at least some of that cost from you. It won't be you making a claim on your insurance, but me (or rather my insurance company)

And as someone who used to be at one of those "overly-bureaucratic clients", we not only required (and checked) that you had insurance, but also that your insurance coverage was actually high enough for project in question.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#64
post #32

The cool thing is that private insurers invest heavily in fossil fuel. https://consumerwatchdog.org/insurance/top-10-us-insurance-c...

Isn't that just how they hedge bets? Their performance is correlated with the claims they receive. If fossil fuels perform poorly -> less environmental damage -> less claims. And vice versa

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#66

So if property price drops completely because insurance do not want to insure, it should make buying houses in cash and avoid mortgage easier right? House becomes a cheap commodity, everybody can then buy a house again, insurers can insure them again because they are cheap. The market correct itself. Problem solved?

They'd need to be so cheap that rebuilding (or maybe even repairing) are not things people would care to do. For a $40k house, in today's dollars, it might just be a risk I wouldn't care to rebuild if there's massive damage; just move away. Someone would have to take care of cleanup/removal though. I see where you're going, and sort of think it could happen in some areas, but regulations might not permit that any tim…

There are ways to build flood-resistant houses... as long as the flood doesn't take too much of the ground away.

I have no idea what is the situation there, but there are also ways to preserve the ground against floods.

It's all about determining what is better, preventing the damage or abandoning the place.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#67
post #32

The cool thing is that private insurers invest heavily in fossil fuel. https://consumerwatchdog.org/insurance/top-10-us-insurance-c...

Unfortunately this article is a miss as it does not compare those investments to their entire portfolio size. Renewables have made great strides but the world still runs on the backs of fossil fuels.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#68

As it's only tangentially mentioned in the article people should know that in many (most?) places insurers can't raise prices commensurate with risk making "nonrenewal" their only option. These regulations have reasonable origins because as a mandated product it's pretty tempting to price gouge, but there's no exception for circumstances where the price really should be 3x the historical cost.

This is the massive failure that exists in many states. You are unable to raise rates but the risk has increased and premiums must increase. Both CA and FL are huge losers in this regard. Heavy regulation on rate increases but then happy to create underfunded state policies for their constituents.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#69
post #19

The climate is changing and is affecting regions we knew would be impacted by climate change 30+ years ago. The insurance companies cannot make a profit (and thus would not choose to operate) in these areas now that they're being impacted by climate change. On one hand this seems like the market working exactly as it should be. People should've moved out of these regions in the last 30 years given the information abo…

How do you feel about the denialist argument that since people still buy expensive waterfront property, climate change is not a big deal? My interpretations would probably be some combination of - information asymmetry leading to demand distorting upward - the people who are buying the property have priced in the loss relative to their utility and will be relatively unaffected should they be left holding the watery b…

There’s some degree of risk-shifting, too, right? Since insurance is a precondition for a mortgage and therefore for homeownership (the way Americans like to do it, anyway), states are wont to arrange an “insurer of last resort” that supports the excessive risk through industrywide levies and is ultimately backed by the public purse. So in effect a chunk of that risk is being socialized.

For that matter while some people are rich and flinging money at “expensive waterfront homes,” it seems like most of the people who are being nonrenewed here would have made their decisions before the risk environment shifted in these ways that their insurers are now moving to price in.

Forcing people out of their homes is always going to be painful and ugly; and it’s always going to be politically popular to “keep insurance rates down,” further blunting the raw, market-based risk signal in ways both blunt and subtle.

From a market-level view, that looks impure and improper. From a human, family-level point of view, it’s hard not to sympathize with people who feel like they did everything right, only to have their biggest asset, the totem of generational security that they worked their entire lives for, suddenly turn toxic.

Just as this Times article demonstrates, a lot of these folks don’t have a whole lot of attractive alternatives available to them by the time they’re in this situation. And this market, more than most, seems to come down to deeply human stories, and to images of sympathetic families paying the price for developers’ profligacy.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#70
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about the denialist argument that since people still buy expensive waterfront property, climate change is not a big deal? My interpretations would probably be some combination of - information asymmetry leading to demand distorting upward - the people who are buying the property have priced in the loss relative to their utility and will be relatively unaffected should they be left holding the watery b…

Eh, people (including me) are very good at optimizing for short-run happiness and less-good at optimizing for longer-run happiness. A million people a year get arrested in the US for drunk driving...and that's apparently the equilibrium. If that many people are willing to risk their lives and their freedom to save money on an Uber, it's not hard to believe that millions of people would be happy to buy beautiful water…

There’s also this notion of normalcy bias: even if I accept the risk in the abstract, I genuinely believe it won’t happen to me personally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

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