Canadian here using y'all every day. Might as well make it the formal English plural.
Funny, the only time I ever got made fun of as a southern kid using y'all was when visiting Toronto suburbs (back in the 1990s).
In Defense of Y'All
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Re: In Defense of Y'All
#62When I learned German, I started using “y’all” in English because I got used to using a plural you. I’ve never lived anywhere near the south, but once you start using it, it feels weird not to.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though often used in a gender neutral way, "guys" is definitely more male than "y'all".
Fun litmus test, if the person challenging this assertion happens to be a straight male: "how many guys have you slept with?"
I'd guess this depends on region/demographic, but at least in my circles on the west coast, "guys" is gendered when it's used to describe or identify people in the third person, but it's gender-neutral when used to address a group of people in the second person.
So "the guys" or "how many guys" always refers to men, but "you guys" carries no implication of gender at all. I often hear people address groups consisting entirely of women as "guys", and nobody bats an eye.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fun litmus test, if the person challenging this assertion happens to be a straight male: "how many guys have you slept with?"
I'd guess this depends on region/demographic, but at least in my circles on the west coast, "guys" is gendered when it's used to describe or identify people in the third person, but it's gender-neutral when used to address a group of people in the second person. So "the guys" or "how many guys" always refers to men, but "you guys" carries no implication of gender at all. I often hear people address groups consisting…
Yes agreed. In most regions/groups in America, "you guys" does not carry the same meaning as "a group of guys"
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#65I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…
> "you guys" is sexist is it though?
It depends. Are you attracted to guys?
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#66I grew up in Texas and lived in Ohio for a year during middle school. So of course I said y'all. I'll tell you what - kids that age will laser in on anything to cast someone as an outsider, and for me that year it was that word.
Soon after moving back to Texas I regained confidence in saying the word. I think these days the only people that draw any attention to the word are non americans, so maybe it's proliferated a bit more in the last 2 decades.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#67I tease non-Texans that Texan English is actually superior to normal American English because it supports second-person plural via "Y'all" exactly as mentioned in this article... "you guys" is, to some ears, sexist, and "youse guys" (a New York-ism) is a little too old-school Italian. English lost its second person plural when we switched from Thou (second person singular formal + Thee=second person singular informal…
People in some parts of the UK say "yous" for second person plural. So it isn't quite gone.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#68Y'all forever. One of the few southern mannerisms I intentionally don't drop as a lapsed southerner in California.
As an aside, I find it strange how many aspects of "the south" are labeled as "Texan" outside the south. I lived and visited all over the Deep South and y'all was standard vernacular pretty much everywhere. I'm not saying Texans don't say y'all, but they definitely don't have any unique claim to using it as second-person plural.
Re: In Defense of Y'All
#69Re: In Defense of Y'All
#70Only a true Texan can tell you the difference between "y'all" and "all y'all".
Some sets have a canonical partition. If you're referring to a set of birds or a set of fish, then the correct usage is y'all because those sets canonically partition into themselves. But if you're referring to a set of birds and fish together, then the usage is "all y'all" because the canonical partition yields more than one subset (one containing birds, and one containing fish). The distinction helps differentiate…
Having never given much thought to it, your analysis rings true to my native Texan ears.
There's another usage that comes to mind, though. One might argue that "y'all" borders on a second person plural inclusive of the speaker whereas "all y'all" marks a distinction between the speaker and the others. For instance, a peeved person would be more likely to say, "All y'all can kiss my ass," as opposed to, "Y'all can kiss my ass." "Y'all" by itself is more friendly and self-inclusive than "all y'all", which carries an inherent otherness to it.