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"Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

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Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#61

Post by bri3d »

xvfLJfx9 wrote: post #27
tetrisgm wrote: post #20

Can this be fixed by removing the efuse or having a custom firmware?

You can't lol. How do you wanna restore a blown fuse on nanometer level INSIDE the GPU die. Its simply not possible. By the way, AMD also uses fuse blowing if you e.g. overclock some of their CPUs to mark them as warranty voided. They give you a warning in the BIOS and if you resume a fuse inside the CPU gets blown that will permanently indicate that the CPU has been used for overclocking (and thus remove the warrant…

> You can't lol. How do you wanna restore a blown fuse on nanometer level INSIDE the GPU die. Its simply not possible.

I wouldn't dismiss this so aggressively.

Frequently (more frequently than not), efuses are simply used as configuration fields checked by firmware. If that firmware can be modified, the value of the efuse can be ignored. It's substantially easier to implement a fused feature as a bit in a big bitfield of "chicken bits" in one-time programmable memory than to try to physically fuse off an entire power or clock domain, which would border on physically irreversible (this is done sometimes, but only where strictly necessary and not often).

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#62

Post by wmf »

creato wrote: post #52

NVIDIA is obviously not above market segmentation via dubious means (see: driver limitations for consumer GPUs), but I think binning due to silicon defects is a more likely explanation in this case. Some 4090s have this extra fp16 -> fp32 ALU disabled because it's defective on that chip. Other 4090s have it disabled because it failed as an Ada 6000 for some other reason, but NVIDIA didn't want to make a 4095 SKU to s…

It's more likely that any defect in a core causes the whole core to be disabled. Especially in the this case where I assume the FP16 x FP16 -> FP32 path uses the same hardware as the FP16 x FP16 -> FP16 path.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#63

Post by tayo42 »

zamadatix wrote: post #41
tayo42 wrote: post #31

How do you go to from that screen shot to this conclusion?

You go from the eFuse mentioned at the beginning to the conclusion in the screenshot at the end, not the other way around.

Am I missing something then? Is there some context to the linked tweet and screen shot that didn't come up?

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#64

Post by [deleted] »

creato wrote: post #52

NVIDIA is obviously not above market segmentation via dubious means (see: driver limitations for consumer GPUs), but I think binning due to silicon defects is a more likely explanation in this case. Some 4090s have this extra fp16 -> fp32 ALU disabled because it's defective on that chip. Other 4090s have it disabled because it failed as an Ada 6000 for some other reason, but NVIDIA didn't want to make a 4095 SKU to s…

[deleted]

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#65

Post by akira2501 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #29
chrsw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel didn't have a software stack moat.

Nvidia is helping power the tool that destroys the software moat.

Interesting that it's entirely failed to do that so far.

Nvidia is helping power the next generation of big brother government programs.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#66

Post by KennyBlanken »

caycep wrote: post #38
chrsw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel didn't have a software stack moat.

Intel didn't do a lot of things...

The Pentium math bug, Puma cablemodems, their shitty cellular modems that are far worse than Qualcomm's, gigabit chipset issues, 2.5GB chipset issues, and now the 13th/14th gen CPUs that destroy themselves.

And we just gave them billions in tax dollars. Failing upwards...

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#67

Post by wmf »

bri3d wrote: post #61
xvfLJfx9 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't lol. How do you wanna restore a blown fuse on nanometer level INSIDE the GPU die. Its simply not possible. By the way, AMD also uses fuse blowing if you e.g. overclock some of their CPUs to mark them as warranty voided. They give you a warning in the BIOS and if you resume a fuse inside the CPU gets blown that will permanently indicate that the CPU has been used for overclocking (and thus remove the warrant…

> You can't lol. How do you wanna restore a blown fuse on nanometer level INSIDE the GPU die. Its simply not possible. I wouldn't dismiss this so aggressively. Frequently (more frequently than not), efuses are simply used as configuration fields checked by firmware. If that firmware can be modified, the value of the efuse can be ignored. It's substantially easier to implement a fused feature as a bit in a big bitfiel…

This is true but that's why the firmware is signed so you can't patch it.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#68

Post by henryfjordan »

daxfohl wrote: post #49
modeless wrote: post #21

This is why Nvidia needs competition. I love the performance of their hardware and the quality of their drivers, but I don't love being their customer. They have a long, long history of price discrimination using techniques like this. Back in the day it was "workstation" graphics for CAD programs that they would nerf for consumer cards by downgrading various features of OpenGL. Different markets, same techniques. It'…

Oh, right, the CAD thing was sketchier. IIRC there wasn't any feature of OpenGL/DirectX that was nerfed, it was just an agreement with CAD companies to reject the GPUs that didn't have the workstation bit fused. For this performance nerf, IDK, seems fine to me. Software companies do this all the time. Same piece of software but you have to pay to unlock features. I don't see why hardware should be any different. Gran…

That sounds like a classic Anti-trust suit waiting to happen. CAD company and NVIDIA colluding to drive sales exclusively to each other. That's illegal and exploitative.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#69

Post by michaelt »

chrsw wrote: post #10
jsiepkes wrote: post #6

There was a time when Intel seemed unbeatable. In 2000 they had a 500 billion USD valuation. That's almost a trillion dollars in today's (2024) USD. Today they are valued at 90 billion USD and Broadcom was thinking about buying them... My point is these things don't seem to last in tech.

Intel didn't have a software stack moat.

In 2000 Intel had a huge software moat: Microsoft Windows, and the large install base of x86-only software.

Rich webapps hadn't been invented. Smartphones? If you're lucky your flip phone might have a colour screen. If you've got money to burn, you can insert a PCMCIA card into your Compaq iPAQ and try out this new "802.11b" thing. Java was... being Java.

Almost all the software out there - especially if it had a GUI, and a lot of it did - was distributed as binaries that only ran on x86.

Re: "Nvidia is so far ahead that all the 4090s are nerfed to half speed"

#70

Post by mensetmanusman »

akira2501 wrote: post #65
mensetmanusman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia is helping power the tool that destroys the software moat.

Interesting that it's entirely failed to do that so far. Nvidia is helping power the next generation of big brother government programs.

Aren’t we like 0.000001% in the journey?
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