Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 367 posts

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#61

Post by MobiusHorizons »

Barrin92 wrote: post #27

>Many sociologists attribute the ever-plunging birth rates to Japan’s unforgiving work culture and rising costs of living. It still seems like an incredibly odd argument to me given that the birth rate is only marginally lower than in the most generous, least working European nations. Hungary spent 5%(!) of its GDP on direct family support and it did very little (raised the birth rate by 0.15 give or take). I wonder…

> adjust economic policies accordingly

What do you have in mind? My understanding is that this is not something there is much of an economic solution for short of canceling benefits (pensions / medical care)

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#62

Post by bbqfog »

Asraelite wrote: post #60
bbqfog wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it more terrible? You certainly had more organic social connections and family support. Physically tougher than a modern white collar job? Sure. Better than commuting and working for some shitty boss though!

Try asking that after spending a while living in a tenement building with 3 people per room and frequent outbreaks of dysentery and smallpox.

People still live like this today.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#63

Post by rurp »

lenerdenator wrote: post #38
WillyWonkaJr wrote: post #18

Japan is forecast to still have 50 million people in 2120. I wouldn't call this a population crisis. With some rewilding it could be quite pleasant! I suspect companies are afraid of not growing, and governments are afraid to cut spending. Source: https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/new-population-projection-how...

The problem isn't that companies are "afraid of not growing", or governments are "afraid to cut spending", it's that they've already signed off on paying back loans over the span of decades and were expecting to be able to pay off those loans with the value created by a growing population. It's less about fear and more about economic realities.

Western governments hardly operate on a shoestring budget, rather they've spent generations spending profligately with the assumption that massive sustained economic growth would bail them out without having to make any hard tradeoffs. That strategy has worked out ok so far but it has always been a fragile one and we might be entering an era where it fails to work in many places.

The transition to much lower deficit spending certainly won't be popular and might go catastrophically poorly. I actually think there's a pretty good chance that things will go quite poorly, but there's no reason it has to be so.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#64

Post by pamelafox »

Nickersf wrote: post #59

I don't think it will boost the fertility rate in any significant way. I think the only way to really make a dent in low fertility rates is to incentivize mothers to stay at home and men to work full-time at least for the first five years of a child's life. I know people disagree with this, but it's worth considering if the declining birth rates are a major concern for the State.

I'm curious if you have tried taking care of a young child 24/7, it is exhausting work. Some mothers are able to do it, but I find it really helps to be able to alternate between childcare and work, to give me a break.

I do think that remote work is great for mothers though, as it makes pumping/nursing more doable, whether we are working or not.

Perhaps the government can provide more subsidies for quality childcare.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#65

Post by lenerdenator »

rurp wrote: post #63
lenerdenator wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that companies are "afraid of not growing", or governments are "afraid to cut spending", it's that they've already signed off on paying back loans over the span of decades and were expecting to be able to pay off those loans with the value created by a growing population. It's less about fear and more about economic realities.

Western governments hardly operate on a shoestring budget, rather they've spent generations spending profligately with the assumption that massive sustained economic growth would bail them out without having to make any hard tradeoffs. That strategy has worked out ok so far but it has always been a fragile one and we might be entering an era where it fails to work in many places. The transition to much lower deficit…

> there's no reason it has to be so.

Besides basic human nature.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#66

Post by cowgoesmoo »

bbqfog wrote: post #62
Asraelite wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try asking that after spending a while living in a tenement building with 3 people per room and frequent outbreaks of dysentery and smallpox.

People still live like this today.

extremely rare in countries with falling birth rates

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#67

Post by rqtwteye »

FigurativeVoid wrote: post #8
MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

I have had friends and family that work 4x10s or even 3x12s and they all vastly prefer the trade-off of more hours per work day for fewer days.

I did 4x10 and I found it horrible. During the four days, I didn't get to do anything other than work and commute. And the stupid thing was that my output (and that of my coworkers as far as I could tell) was not really higher with 10 hours than with 8 hours. Three day weekends are nice though.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#68

Post by helsinki »

pamelafox wrote: post #64
Nickersf wrote: post #59

I don't think it will boost the fertility rate in any significant way. I think the only way to really make a dent in low fertility rates is to incentivize mothers to stay at home and men to work full-time at least for the first five years of a child's life. I know people disagree with this, but it's worth considering if the declining birth rates are a major concern for the State.

I'm curious if you have tried taking care of a young child 24/7, it is exhausting work. Some mothers are able to do it, but I find it really helps to be able to alternate between childcare and work, to give me a break. I do think that remote work is great for mothers though, as it makes pumping/nursing more doable, whether we are working or not. Perhaps the government can provide more subsidies for quality childcare.

Just get divorced and only spend a few days per week with your kid. Honestly, it's pretty good.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#69

Post by jorblumesea »

cableshaft wrote: post #25
jorblumesea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the amount of people but your population pyramid. If your population halves, expect a lot of pain. Especially for the elderly.

Especially for something like Social Security safety nets, which relies on a larger younger population paying into it. I'm not sure if Japan has an equivalent but I think they do.

every social safety net in every country needs to be funded somehow and a shrinking population means more debt to take on or higher taxes on existing workers. nothing is free.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#70

Post by ipaddr »

bbqfog wrote: post #49
nkzd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure about this one. In the past, quality of life was terrible compared to modern life but fertility was not an issue.

Was it more terrible? You certainly had more organic social connections and family support. Physically tougher than a modern white collar job? Sure. Better than commuting and working for some shitty boss though!

We take so much for granted. Living in a world without electricity, medicine, food scarcity, lack of safety net.

Family didn't offer as much support as it appears. Average kids are working farms rich children are sent away to be raised.

The social bonds of the modern world still exist in the same places as the past. It starts with the church.. so if you crave the social connections you can still go to church to find it.

Post reply on HN