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I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

kopiascsaba.hu

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Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#61

Post by meigwilym »

atoav wrote: post #46
tommica wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... Do you know the orgs name?

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

But isn't the cookie banner for asking permission to use third party cookies? I don't think I ever have seen a cookie banner asking if I agree to my data being sold.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#62

Post by meigwilym »

kcsaba2 wrote: post #11
quasse wrote: post #4

Did you test your course on any elderly people as you were developing it? What did you learn from that, if so? Did it require changes that were surprising?

I wanted to:) And you know what the funny thing is, if i give the course for free, no-one watches it. I did reach out to several people in my friendship, gave them free the course just to get feedback. None of them watched it, so thats very, very surprising for me. Maybe i should go up to random strangers and PAY THEM in order to give them something that would benefit them - and maybe get some feedback:)) But on the…

FREE SEMINAR ON SMARTPHONES!

Come along for a coffee (free!) and a showing of a film that will teach you how to use your smartphone.

Your grandkids will be bowled over by your new tech abilities!

All we ask is for you to answer an anonymous questionnaire at the end. No need to give any personal details.

===

Or something like that...?

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#63

Post by piltdownman »

atoav wrote: post #46
tommica wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... Do you know the orgs name?

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

Check out the recent paywalls by EU Newspapers like Der Spiegel where it's a 'pay or consent' cookie popup.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#64

Post by piltdownman »

qwertox wrote: post #45

I just watched the power phone on / off preview, and it has the issues which I assumed it would have. Long-press to turn on a powered-off phone is not a standard. Even I don't know how to turn these devices on, so I do a combination of multiple short presses, multiple long presses until it works. Powering the phone off via the button won't work on modern phones, since the hardware power button has become the tool to…

// Powering the phone off via the button won't work on modern phones, since the hardware power button has become the tool to invoke an assistant.

ALL versions of Android OS allows you to set the power button back to power on long-press - you just have to go back into settings to change it; although the Pixel range had a recent update change to Gemini as default. Similar to the double-tap for quick camera.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#65

Post by noirscape »

meigwilym wrote: post #61
atoav wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

But isn't the cookie banner for asking permission to use third party cookies? I don't think I ever have seen a cookie banner asking if I agree to my data being sold.

Why do you think website operators want to place those third party cookies on your PC?

There's only one legitimate use for them, which is for ancient corporate login workflows that shouldn't exist anymore. Every other use of them generally is just for targeted advertising, and with it sale of data, or using them for internal analytics.

Usually they don't really mention the selling data part upfront; it's hidden somewhere in the giant modals that they make you click through. There's also the related problem that Google is an information guzzler, and anything that enters it's ecosystem has a chance to get used by them for advertising, meaning that these giant modals also get shown for webpages that use Analytics. That last one is how you often see sites without ads get those giant modals.

Arguably they should've been blocked by the user agent years ago, and Mozilla has already done so. Google however cannot do so with Chrome because of their conflict of interest in the ad market; the UK has determined that if Chrome kills third party cookies, all their replacements would just punt Google into unfair competition. It's probably the strongest argument I can think of as to why Chrome should be split off from Google - a browser that cannot meaningfully protect a user against bad actors because of the operator being a monopolist bad actor shouldn't be used at all.

Mere (same site) login cookies require no modals or confirmation since the user implicitly consents to them when they authenticate (most users expect their login to be preserved when they changes pages and/or reload the site.) That said, it's still considered a courtesy/good practice to inform users before placing them regardless.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#66

Post by noirscape »

piltdownman wrote: post #63
atoav wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

Check out the recent paywalls by EU Newspapers like Der Spiegel where it's a 'pay or consent' cookie popup.

Those are most likely illegal too, although local DPAs have been mucking with allowing them.

The CJEU however doesn't seem to like the practice, considering Meta/Facebook wants to do the same scheme, and as a general rule, when a major company does it, it'll eventually get a decision from the CJEU.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#67

Post by atoav »

meigwilym wrote: post #61
atoav wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

But isn't the cookie banner for asking permission to use third party cookies? I don't think I ever have seen a cookie banner asking if I agree to my data being sold.

Yeah but the law didn't invent cookie banners, people who (intentionally mis-)interpreting the law did. Then in the public eye it got reduced to "You need a cookie banner" and people jumped on the bandwagon, because other sides had them so apparently you need to have them too. Many of those cookie banners are factually at odds with current EU law. But hey everything is a cargo cult these days.

Legally the law is just: You have to ask for informed consent that has to be given freely for each purpose. How you ask and how you inform is not defined precisely, except for negative examples what isn't considered informed consent or freely given consent etc.

If someone just clicks "Accept All" that person wasn't informed. So cool that you made them click, but you could also just have left it away, since it didn't give you the thing the law required you to get.

That means real datahogs would probably need to inform people in a many slides long presentation or a feature length film before they could actually get even close to receiving something resembling informed consent. That is ofc totally unpractical and would hurt their business of data-hogging.

Now the EU came at this with the base assumption that prvacy is a right that needs to be protected in a way that it cannot be simply given away without informed free consent. So if it hurts databogs, that is one of the intended side effects.

If my friends Pizza place wants to put ads onto my website that is entirely possible without any tracking he can give me a JPEG or a video and I put it onto my website as static content. Just the current way of advertisements with 300+ third parties would become harder.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#68

Post by atoav »

piltdownman wrote: post #63
atoav wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just going to leave this here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/ Yeah, you better comply. And it is also pretty simple — if you don't so anything that requires that you get informed consent from your users you don't need to ask them. Each combination of personal datum and purpose requires such consent if it isn't a strictly needed purpose (legitimate interest). Example: If you have an online shop you can e.g.…

Check out the recent paywalls by EU Newspapers like Der Spiegel where it's a 'pay or consent' cookie popup.

By the letter of the law these cookie paywalls are actually illegal. I assume the news sites are intentionally taking the risk till there is legal clarification/precedent.

I wish them that the EU comes crashing down with a hammer and demands all ad revenue of that time back.

Re: I spent a year building an Android course for the elderly

#70

Post by raisedbyninjas »

thimkerbell wrote: post #60
kcsaba2 wrote: post #2

Teaching tech to elderly people is hard—many struggle with gestures, apps, or even turning their phones on. I built a course from scratch, covering every step from unboxing to apps. Along the way, I learned about video production, Android’s quirks, and marketing struggles.

Another thing that's difficult, is that phones that were advertised as old-person-friendlly, physically were not. Black buttons on black background, etc. Maybe this sotuation has improved.

Make sure the old-person in your life has hand lotion on. Touch screens are not tuned to their drier skin.
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