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Hit men aren't what you think

slate.com

61–70 of 311 posts

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) it is not hard to get a silencer. You can make one in under an hour with cheap parts from a hardware store and a drill. As you can to construct an entire gun, if you want a crude option. But this isn’t Japan. Obtaining a commercial silencer doesn’t require someone to smuggle them through international customs, just across state lines. They’re harder to get than a handgun, but not hard enough to get that a determ…

You have to wait at least 8 months (it varies) to get a suppressor when you buy one. You also have to submit passport photos, get finger printed by either the sheriff or police chief, and then wait. This is in addition to a regular NICS type check.

And you have to have a home address in a state where they are allowed... e.g. not NY. But yeah, I don't think it is incorrect to say they are "hard" to get, especially in context here.

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#62
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know why I don't work for a trapping and pest control company? Because structurally they kill animals. They go around with tools of destruction and end the lives of animals. Its the function of their existence. Do you know why I don't work for a _for profit_ health insurance company, who's stated goals are explicitly to make profit by slicing out some amount of premiums that are not spent to provide healthcare in…

By this same logic, you are responsible for the death of every person who could have been saved by you donating all of your income beyond basic living expenses (your personal "profit", if you will) to pay for their medical care. You monster! How many people could you have saved! Instead you spend your money on vacations, television, computer games, music, movies, coffee, whatever. Oh, what's that you say? _You_ (who,…

"Logic" leads to black and white thinking. Quantity makes the quality.

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#64
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know why I don't work for a trapping and pest control company? Because structurally they kill animals. They go around with tools of destruction and end the lives of animals. Its the function of their existence. Do you know why I don't work for a _for profit_ health insurance company, who's stated goals are explicitly to make profit by slicing out some amount of premiums that are not spent to provide healthcare in…

By this same logic, you are responsible for the death of every person who could have been saved by you donating all of your income beyond basic living expenses (your personal "profit", if you will) to pay for their medical care. You monster! How many people could you have saved! Instead you spend your money on vacations, television, computer games, music, movies, coffee, whatever. Oh, what's that you say? _You_ (who,…

This is a specious argument.

A healthcare provider has a special responsibility because of the nature of their work. By definition, their role involves providing essential care to those in need. Their professional mission and the ethical codes guiding them (e.g., the Hippocratic Oath for physicians) emphasize patient welfare above all. An average person, while still morally capable of altruism, does not have a professional, codified duty to care for others’ health as a primary function of their life. They are not the designated or societally recognized gatekeepers of life-saving services.

In short, it’s not just about the availability of money; it’s about the nature and structure of the activity. Healthcare isn’t merely a commodity; it’s a critical social good. The moral expectations for an industry entrusted with people’s lives are and should be different from those applied to random private individuals.

Healthcare providers, especially large corporations, control access to life-saving goods and services. When such entities profit substantially, they do so from a position of gatekeeping essential health resources. They often have significant market power and can influence prices, accessibility, and quality of care. This is categorically different from an individual’s personal discretionary spending, which does not impose direct barriers between people in need and the care required to save their lives. The moral outrage about profit in healthcare often centers on the idea that unnecessary suffering or death occurs not because of a lack of resources in general, but because of a deliberate choice to prioritize profit margins over patient well-being. When an individual chooses to keep their discretionary income rather than donate it, that is not typically a case of withholding a life-saving resource they directly control. It’s a missed opportunity for altruism, yes—but it’s not a systematic withholding of lifesaving treatment from a dependent patient population.

The more direct your ability to help and the more acute the need, the stronger the moral obligation. A hospital that can provide a life-saving drug at a lower price but chooses not to, in order to maximize profit, is directly and immediately impacting patients’ lives. In contrast, an ordinary person’s failure to donate their personal entertainment budget to global health charities is morally less direct and involves a much more diffuse causal chain. The responsibility is mitigated by lack of proximity, lack of direct obligation, and lack of any professional or social contract stating that their role is to provide healthcare.

Your argument tries to equate personal, optional altruism with the professional moral obligations of healthcare providers, but these are not parallel situations. The ethical landscape is more nuanced: Institutions and professionals whose entire function is to safeguard and restore health must be held to a standard consistent with that mission. This does not require expecting every individual to donate all surplus income, nor does it demand that healthcare only be provided by charities. It simply recognizes that the context and nature of healthcare services place a different and higher ethical obligation on those who profit from them.

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#65
post #7

The shooter used a rare weapon with an integrated suppressor (or "Silencer" as the article indicates). A British made station six 9. I wonder if that will be the focus of investigators, since its an highly unusual weapon.

[deleted]

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) it is not hard to get a silencer. You can make one in under an hour with cheap parts from a hardware store and a drill. As you can to construct an entire gun, if you want a crude option. But this isn’t Japan. Obtaining a commercial silencer doesn’t require someone to smuggle them through international customs, just across state lines. They’re harder to get than a handgun, but not hard enough to get that a determ…

You have to wait at least 8 months (it varies) to get a suppressor when you buy one. You also have to submit passport photos, get finger printed by either the sheriff or police chief, and then wait. This is in addition to a regular NICS type check.

Also a $200 tax stamp for each suppressor. Again, someone COULD buy a manufactured suppressor legally and tie all their credit info and everything back but according to the news this shooter:

1. Traveled on a Greyhound bus from somewhere between Atlanta to New York in the past 5-10 days

2. Used a fake New Jersey driver's license to register at the hostel he was staying at

3. reportedly wore a mask indoors consistently while staying in the hostel

4. paid cash for everything

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#68
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this same logic, you are responsible for the death of every person who could have been saved by you donating all of your income beyond basic living expenses (your personal "profit", if you will) to pay for their medical care. You monster! How many people could you have saved! Instead you spend your money on vacations, television, computer games, music, movies, coffee, whatever. Oh, what's that you say? _You_ (who,…

"Logic" leads to black and white thinking. Quantity makes the quality.

Oh no! It's the trolley problem!

https://youtu.be/33VUuu2fb1I

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#69
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is your theory of responsibility? Ethical: He was the CEO of the company and ultimately the buck stops with him on company policies. The company he lead has the highest number of insurance denials (double most other insurance agencies). That has almost certainly lead to death as people not being able to afford treatment is a great way to die. Consider, for example, if someone has cancer and insurance denies co…

> This is not a soldier or a serial killer. It's worse than both. How can you be so morally clueless? When an insurance company denies coverage, it isn't killing someone. It didn't make anyone sick. Rather, it didn't pick up the bill for their treatment. That may have been wrong, it may have been an evasion of responsibility, but it is not comparable to someone who goes around killing people . I have to understand co…

Compare this to someone who controls the only available lifeboat while others are drowning. The person in control may not have pushed anyone overboard, but if they refuse to help—especially after taking on the explicit role of “we’re here to help if something goes wrong”—they carry moral responsibility for the resulting harm. Insurance companies are not random bystanders; they are paid entities agreeing to intervene financially on behalf of the patient. Their explicit role makes their refusal to pay not merely passive, but an active withholding of assistance they were entrusted (and compensated) to provide. An insurance company knows full well that refusing to cover a critical treatment will likely result in the patient’s deterioration or death.

Remember Asimov's rules? A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. They are one and the same.

Re: Hit men aren't what you think

#70
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is your theory of responsibility? Ethical: He was the CEO of the company and ultimately the buck stops with him on company policies. The company he lead has the highest number of insurance denials (double most other insurance agencies). That has almost certainly lead to death as people not being able to afford treatment is a great way to die. Consider, for example, if someone has cancer and insurance denies co…

> This is not a soldier or a serial killer. It's worse than both. How can you be so morally clueless? When an insurance company denies coverage, it isn't killing someone. It didn't make anyone sick. Rather, it didn't pick up the bill for their treatment. That may have been wrong, it may have been an evasion of responsibility, but it is not comparable to someone who goes around killing people . I have to understand co…

> it isn't killing someone.

It is absolutely killing multiple people yearly.

If I withhold water from someone dying of thirst, who I promised to give water to, who paid me for that water, I've killed them when they die. I may not have plunged a knife into their heart but they'll be dead all the same directly from my actions.

If an insurance company does not pay for the medicine and treatments they say they cover, that they payed to cover, and people die from that, they are responsible for those deaths.

A serial killer kills less than the medical health industry does. That doesn't make them moral, it highlights how immoral the current healthcare system is in the US.

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