Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide • Hacker News Board

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#61

Post by oblio » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:03 AM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #5

Thinking that recycling would address the problem of plastic pollution is wishful thinking. Plastic recycles very poorly. Companies like plastic because it means thicker margins for them, environment be damned; the proper solution is not to buy into the “consumers should be recycling” narrative but to thin out their margins so that using more sustainable and recyclable materials is financially attractive again.

The more I think about it, a lot of modern materials science seems to be just... bad.

Leaded gasoline, asbestos, plastics (micro plastics, the Great Garbage Patch, etc), teflon, etc.

We have some real winners in there but the constant push for growth leads to these wonder materials being used 1000 - 100 000 000x more than they should be used. Usually because of convenience and profit margins.

It's just that it's close to impossible to get rid of them. Plastic is in: paint, wall covering such as wallpaper, food packaging, waste disposable bags, cars, bikes, clothes, shoes, ...

It's basically impossible to find all natural products and they're also super expensive because, well, they are, but also because we're underinvesting in them.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#62

Post by spacebanana7 » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:03 AM UTC

rishav_sharan wrote: post #35

spacebanana7 wrote: post #29

Waste isn't inherently bad, littering is. It's not Coca Cola's fault that people throw away plastic bottles into the rainforest, oceans or other fragile ecosystems.

No, but it definitely should be in Coca Cola's charter to explore and invest in biodegradable alternatives. And the only way to hold such immense companies to their environmental responsibilities is either regulation or consumer perception.

Is this more of a realpolitik environmentalism? I can see how it’s easier to legally pressure Coca Cola than to enforce littering fines & proper landfill practices globally. But it’s still not morally Coca Cola’s fault that lazy consumers litter.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#63

Post by spacebanana7 » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:03 AM UTC

rishav_sharan wrote: post #35

spacebanana7 wrote: post #29

Waste isn't inherently bad, littering is. It's not Coca Cola's fault that people throw away plastic bottles into the rainforest, oceans or other fragile ecosystems.

No, but it definitely should be in Coca Cola's charter to explore and invest in biodegradable alternatives. And the only way to hold such immense companies to their environmental responsibilities is either regulation or consumer perception.

Is this more of a realpolitik environmentalism? I can see how it’s easier to legally pressure Coca Cola than to enforce littering fines & proper landfill practices globally. But it’s still not morally Coca Cola’s fault that lazy consumers litter.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#64

Post by esperent » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:04 AM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #26

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #16

To everyone blaming consumers: I encourage you to take a solution driven mindset here. Consumers won't change. There's far too many people, some of which don't care about the environment. Tight regulations and additional tax on single use plastics can reduce plastic waste.

> pieces of plastic that they collected during clean-up events The article is about trash from littering. Surely the consumers fault.

> Surely the consumers fault.

Finding fault is not the same thing as finding a solution. Does it get us in any way closer to a solution if we blame the company, the consumers, or both, or neither? I don't think so.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#65

Post by panick21_ » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:04 AM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #26

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #16

To everyone blaming consumers: I encourage you to take a solution driven mindset here. Consumers won't change. There's far too many people, some of which don't care about the environment. Tight regulations and additional tax on single use plastics can reduce plastic waste.

> pieces of plastic that they collected during clean-up events The article is about trash from littering. Surely the consumers fault.

Costumers are responsive to many things. Littering happens far more often when there aren't convenient options. And people also litter more, if things are already a mess. So you can do a lot to reduce littering.

The US figured that out themselves with highways.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#66

Post by strogonoff » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:04 AM UTC

eek04_ wrote: post #54

strogonoff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have met people who like to drink from glass, and people who buy things in plastic bottles because that’s literally the only option if you want to enjoy a drink or even just clean water. These are the two (non mutually exclusive) categories of people that I normally meet. Do you often meet people who specifically like plastic, as opposed to tolerating it?

I like plastic in that I prefer the lower cost and lower pollution and lower weight and lower breakability compared to glass.

I think usually a question about what you like does not call for an answer “I like X because it costs less”—that’s more of an economical preference. Either way, keep in mind that this lower cost for you in the moment, monetarily is in large part due to most governments presumably subsidising oil and due to negative environmental externalities both from plastic pollution and other uses of oil.

(I’m sure, like with any question, there will be many vocal commenters chiming in saying how they like plastic. All I can say, lucky you, and I am yet to meet any of you IRL!)

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#67

Post by fmajid » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:04 AM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #5

Thinking that recycling would address the problem of plastic pollution is wishful thinking. Plastic recycles very poorly. Companies like plastic because it means thicker margins for them, environment be damned; the proper solution is not to buy into the “consumers should be recycling” narrative but to thin out their margins so that using more sustainable and recyclable materials is financially attractive again.

Not wishful thinking, a deliberate greenwashing scam. Aluminum is actually recycled, and should replace PET for all drinks packaging.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#68

Post by spacebanana7 » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:05 AM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #63

rishav_sharan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it definitely should be in Coca Cola's charter to explore and invest in biodegradable alternatives. And the only way to hold such immense companies to their environmental responsibilities is either regulation or consumer perception.

Is this more of a realpolitik environmentalism? I can see how it’s easier to legally pressure Coca Cola than to enforce littering fines & proper landfill practices globally. But it’s still not morally Coca Cola’s fault that lazy consumers litter.

@dang Not sure what’s going on here but the parent comment and my relies both seem to be getting duplicated.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#69

Post by spacebanana7 » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:05 AM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #63

rishav_sharan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it definitely should be in Coca Cola's charter to explore and invest in biodegradable alternatives. And the only way to hold such immense companies to their environmental responsibilities is either regulation or consumer perception.

Is this more of a realpolitik environmentalism? I can see how it’s easier to legally pressure Coca Cola than to enforce littering fines & proper landfill practices globally. But it’s still not morally Coca Cola’s fault that lazy consumers litter.

@dang Not sure what’s going on here but the parent comment and my relies both seem to be getting duplicated.

Re: Five Companies Produce Nearly 25 Percent of All Plastic Waste Worldwide

#70

Post by austinjp » Wed, Nov 27, 2024, 10:06 AM UTC

spacebanana7 wrote: post #59

dragonwriter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waste is inherently bad (in that it is a downstream cost.)

Are faeces inherently bad? Many years of evolution selected that as the most efficient option for a digestive system.

Faeces isn't plastic. Evolution isn't a decision.