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Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

nytimes.com

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Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#61

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

hex4def6 wrote: post #18
smitelli wrote: post #3

Say what you will about the Grumman LLV, but every one of them you see on the road today is at least 30 years old, and some could be pushing 40. (The similar-looking Ford-Utilimaster FFV is ~25 this year.) As uncomfortable as it must be to sit in one for hours on end (I never had the privilege myself) you've got to respect their longevity. Here's hoping these new trucks make it to the 2050s and beyond.

"While the all-aluminum body of the LLV has resisted corrosion exceptionally well over the years, the main powertrain components have been replaced multiple times and now must be sourced through aftermarket manufacturing. This has significantly increased repair costs while reducing performance and reliability. In fact, the Postal Service had to contract an alternative supplier to reverse engineer and manufacture the…

> manufacture the chassis frame

Ship of Theseus notwithstanding, at that point, isn't it a new car if you're replacing the chassis?

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#62

Post by mschuster91 »

ggreer wrote: post #58

I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper. NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] The…

> I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper.

Commercial vehicles in fleets are leased - they last anywhere from 2-5 years then they're pushed off to the used vehicle market. After 10-15 years they're so done that they'll end up on the scrap yard or shipped off to Africa or Asia. On top of that they're designed to be aerodynamic at highway speeds because they'll spend a lot of their life time on such streets and speeds, whereas these postal trucks will spend most of their time moving like snails.

These USPS tanks in contrast are expected to last 30, 40 years like their predecessors, racking up insane mileage... and while no one cares if some underpaid gig worker runs over some child because the child happened to be in the dead spot of his vehicle, if the same happens to USPS the government itself is the target for a nice juicy lawsuit. So it makes sense for a custom order at that scale and expected life time, and it also makes sense to stray from what the market has to offer because the requirements are different.

Oh, and commercial delivery doesn't have to take care about its workers. They'll get burned out with their backs and joints ruined, but the companies don't have to pay a dime. In contrast, USPS is a government agency and has a massive financial incentive to keep healthcare costs low.

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#63

Post by greenthrow »

ggreer wrote: post #58

I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper. NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] The…

As usual when you take a dismissive stance ("this is obviously a waste of money!") you are ignoring lots od details. The use case of a mail carrier is not well suited by a massive eSprinter. They have no need for something so large. They want to be seated at the height where most mailboxes are so they can make many deliveries without getting out of the car.

Whenever you find yourself going "why would they make THAT decision?" assume it is yourself that is ignorant and take it as an opportunity to learn, rather than dismiss the choices of people who specialize in the area you are puzzled by.

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#64

Post by KK7NIL »

ggreer wrote: post #58

I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper. NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] The…

Did you not read the article?

The NGDVs aren't Sprinter vans, they're purpose made mail delivery vehicles, with ergonomics and cargo space setup for that, which makes a massive difference for the drivers, especially when it comes to repetitive motion injuries, which is a huge cost for USPS.

Amazon went away from commercial vans to purpose made vehicles built by Rivian for many of the same reasons and they've been widely praised by the drivers.

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#65

Post by not_kurt_godel »

throwworhtthrow wrote: post #59
not_kurt_godel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government gonna government and not find a replacement till it's almost too late Actually they were going to convert to EVs back in 2006 when Bush stepped in to prevent that and punish them on behalf of his oil buddies with the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. The problem isn't government, it's politicians voted in to destroy it in favor of corporate interests.

According to Wikipedia: > Passed the House on December 8, 2006 (voice vote) > Passed the Senate on December 9, 2006 (unanimous consent) Can't pin it all on Bush Jr.

> According to Tom Davis, the Bush administration threatened to veto the legislation unless they added the provision regarding funding the employee benefits in advance with the objective of using that money to reduce the federal deficit.

Bush was responsible for the provision that kneecapped USPS to prevent them from ever funding their EV ambitions (until Biden funded NGDV in 2022)

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#66

Post by Workaccount2 »

agent281 wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #10

I don't mind the appearance if it serves a function, but what's the function? An electric truck wouldn't need a traditional engine compartment.

One benefit of a low hood is that it scoops up pedestrians that might get hit instead of hitting their torsos with the vehicle. It'll probably break your legs, but you are more likely to survive. This is one of the reasons that SUVs and large trucks are deadly: it's basically hitting you directly in the chest cavity.

Few things are more masculine than mowing down pedestrians with a pseudo diesel locomotive.

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#67

Post by justsomehnguy »

whalesalad wrote: post #24

Interesting that the front windshield only has about 50-60% usable space. On the top this makes sense, as the black coating acts as a sun shade. On the bottom... there goes all the visibility gained by having the low hood. wtf? The upfitter AUX switches appear to be Ford, same for the AC controls.

My $5 it's the usual 'too late to change'. Compare with the 2021 version.

Also the if you trace LoS in the cabin pic in the article you would find what the driver wouldn't see more of the hood because he need to be sat quite a lot higher (up to 20cm I think) to gain the view you are thinking of. And this is incompatible with 'do the mailman thing without getting out of chair'.

https://www.nalc.org/news/the-postal-record/2021/may-2021/do...

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#68

Post by ggreer »

KK7NIL wrote: post #64
ggreer wrote: post #58

I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper. NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] The…

Did you not read the article? The NGDVs aren't Sprinter vans, they're purpose made mail delivery vehicles, with ergonomics and cargo space setup for that, which makes a massive difference for the drivers, especially when it comes to repetitive motion injuries, which is a huge cost for USPS. Amazon went away from commercial vans to purpose made vehicles built by Rivian for many of the same reasons and they've been wid…

The Rivian vans are commercially available.[1] Like the NGDV, they have a side door and an 80 inch interior height so that nobody has to stoop while in the cargo bay.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivian_EDV

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#69

Post by stackedinserter »

garciansmith wrote: post #7

I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. It's ultimately function over form in this case; who cares if you don't like how it looks? I can only dream that the visibility and safety of having features like such a low hood and large bumpers would be incorporated into other vehicles (i.e., every SUV ever).

Would you wear the same cloths but in clown colours?

Re: Yes, it ‘looks like a duck,’ but carriers like the new USPS mail truck

#70

Post by chomp »

ggreer wrote: post #58

I wondered why other delivery companies use commercial vehicles instead of NGDVs or LLVs, and the answer is that commercial vehicles are more capable while being significantly cheaper. NGDVs cost $60,000 each, and that's for half of them being ICE vehicles and half EVs with a 70 mile range (35 miles if you use the heater). The ICE version gets 14.7 miles per gallon (8.6mpg if you turn on the air conditioning).[1] The…

How in the world is a mail carrier going to deliver mail in a huge esprinter, you going to have them open their door and climb out at every mailbox?
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