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How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

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61–70 of 346 posts

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#61
post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

> The reason you fluff up feedback to your subordinates is because lower down the chain they tend to be insecure and don't yet have the experience to distinguish between actionable impartial feedback, and threats to their job security.

Rather than fluff it up, just make it explicit whichever you are doing.

If you actually like their work and are making an actionable suggestion, just say that, and don't forget to praise them for the work that you like. Far too often I see managers only give the suggestion and then it ends up looking like a threat.

> The reason you don't fluff feedback, or any information for that matter to your superiors, is described in basically every handbook on highly effective communication in organizations.

The reason you do fluff feedback to your superiors is that you're on an H1B visa, are at risk of getting deported from the country and having to find a new home for your partner and new school for your kids (possibly in an unfamiliar language and environment for them), just for upsetting one superior.

The reality is most people in large companies do not care about "highly effective communication". They are just trying to survive and not get deported. Once we can get rid of this stupid 60 day rule and insane housing and child-raising costs maybe people will start caring about their work. The most basic of Maslow's needs are not being met, hence the fluffing up to the authorities (bosses) who are in control of your livelihood.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#63
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, Americans are much more likely to see criticism as a threat or an insult than in most European business cultures, where blunt feedback is common. I’ve seen many teams in different companies led by Americans where simply pointing out that a plan will fail in a public forum is tantamount to spitting in their face. It’s absurd, and it destroys teams.

> I’ve seen many teams in different companies led by Americans where simply pointing out that a plan will fail in a public forum is tantamount to spitting in their face. I’ve been put into the “practitioner of the dark arts” bucket twice when I predicted with detail and accuracy why certain large projects would fail. The folks in charge were offended when I presented my analysis, and they were just afraid of me after…

I've found these situations to be no-win.

When I had reasonable certainty of my next gig being lined up, I even put the question to leaders. "If I tell you why this project is destined to failure now in Q1 vs being quiet and playing along til end of year, will I be rewarded or punished any differently then?".

The response was 100% nervous laughter. It turned out both layers of management above me were also well aware the marching order they were passing along were going to end badly, and had already lined up their internal transfers, which happened within days of my departure as well.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#64
post #6

Astonishing. Completely backwards. This article describes how to give feedback to your subordinates, not to your superiors. If your superiors are unable to process no-fluff information, regardless of whether it's feedback or updates, they have no business lording over anyone and will sink whatever function they have oversight of. If you find yourself working under such people, don't bother giving feedback, start poli…

At [company that purportedly highly values candor], I’ve seen multiple people get canned by VPs or directors they’ve criticized internally. Granted, these situations were cases where this was communicated either in a larger feedback meeting that was supposed to be a “safe” space for such feedback, or via other communications that were visible to more than just the person being criticized. These criticisms were definitely high up in the PG pyramid and critical of the direction / vision / execution, not of the person themselves. The people who were fired from this were high performers who weren’t otherwise on PIPs or anything like that. Leadership did the typical leadership dance of shifting blame, re-org, and carry on. It was sad and further eroded both trust and morale of others familiar with these situations.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#65
I hope corporate ling like this stops for good. Seriously. Bad management is the norm, not the exception. We're all suffering from poor leadership at every level; I bet you all can count the good managers you've had on one hand.

I'd rather live in a world where we could give blunt and direct feedback like, "You suck as a manager, why are you still insisting on this?" However, we live in a situation where the system will always push back against any dissenting voices, and in the end, back-patting and corporate camaraderie are what keep the wheels turning.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#66

I found strange to see so much criticism of the post as usually, anything that Wes Kao writes really resonates with me as a senior IC. Usually there’s a great balance of nuance and depth to the advice that makes it easy to digest and pick small bits and pieces to try out on my own context

Nearly 30 years in the business here and I think most of what was said in the article is spot on if you are in an appropriate situation. Many commenters seem to take absolutist positions on this and think no one should ever allow themselves to be under a bad manager but it happens and then you need to effectively deal with it and these are some good techniques to do so. The techniques even apply to working with a goo…

Yeah I mean to generalize even further, these are techniques that can apply to your direct reports, your friends, your spouse.

Giving feedback is definitely an art and a thin line between getting your point across in a clear way vs running up against ego or impatience.

If you care about your org's success it's critical to know your audience, their approach and value system, and how to tailor your message to account for what will resonate with them. It's really tough stuff.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#68
At work I always give positive and friendly feedback, regardless of who is asking. I don’t need to put myself in a position in which the receiver didn’t like or misunderstood my feedback the wrong way. What for? I couldn’t care less about their professional development, and I don’t want to be a blocker in their path to promotion.

I do my time, I get paid and move on. Don’t need drama at work.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the profile, when somebody talks to me like that I immediately cringe in my head and lose all respect for the person. Probably a matter of culture too.

This seems like a very shallow way of thinking. "Losing all respect for the person" implies that you think this is NEVER an appropriate way to address someone. Phrasing a disagreement of opinion as a question of reasoning is often the best course of action. In particular if a choice has been made and going back to reverse it has significant costs, it is important to not say anything like "We should not be doing this"…

> What would you say to a superior who made a decision that you disagree with, but don't think is worth reversing?

"I don't understand ... it seems it has the consequence of ... My professional opinion in that case would be... and I would advise to... because of... Is there something I'm not seeing here?"

Benefits:

- I'm not faking it.

- I already provide a lot of information up front to limit back-and-forth. This avoids assumptions and also works better for when you WFH.

- The person knows exactly where I stand and where I want to go. It's not chit-chat, it's not politics, it's purely technical and I want to move on the issue.

- If I'm wrong, I can get told right away. If I'm right, it's factual, and we can move on to solving the problem. And if the person's ego/social status is on the line, they can just BS their way out of it, and I'll just add nothing and move on.

- The template drives the conversation enough that they only need a short answer to let us decide if it's worth reversing. And we can conclude on the price / consequence of that and move on if needed.

I'll change that depending on the person. Some people are way better than me, in that case, I'll default to asking what I'm missing because it's likely they see something I don't.

On the opposite, if it's a junior, I'll assume they get it wrong and help them to fix it (unless they can justify it).

And of course, phrasing will depend of how much intimate I am with the person. Good friends will get a playful version, uptight clients will get the more formal one.

Once you have done that several times and people know the routine and the relationship is good, you barely have to speak. You can just nod at something or raise an eyebrow, and start problem solving or get the info.

But note that I can do that also because my clients value my opinion enough, have respect for my professionalism, and also know, because of my past interactions with them, that I focus on the problem to solve rather than blaming.

Re: How to give a senior leader feedback without getting fired

#70
I assume the mentioned feedback could be interpreted as critical.

First I'd start by mentioning something they doing well OR something positive about them that relates to their job. Ie they have good attitude or get on good with co workers etc.

Then I would move on to what it was thought needed "some improvement" Id mention the "positive outcome" that would result if the feedback I was about to give was implemented. I could even tone it down ...with the words "...my opinion ..."

ie My opinion , is if we ( meaning the manager ) where to do "... what ever ..." it could result in this "....more desirable outcome..." I could soften it more by saying .... we tried this at my previous job ... and it gave "...whatever the positive result is "

( Giving effective feedback is a skill. I learnt how to do in a speech training program called "Toastmasters " We had a internal Toastmasters club for the company I worked add ( Not in the US ) with about 30 members. Often the other members where >several levels< above me. Me - a very junior person at the time. So had to give feedback to Senior staff about their speech. )

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