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Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

caranddriver.com

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Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#61

Post by mmooss »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #16
formerly_proven wrote: post #4

… and VW drops 23 billion on RND each year, but I’m not seeing 6x the output compared to Tesla.

If you knew VW, it has way more people on payroll doing nothing for huge salaries than Imma-fire-80%-of-people Elon. Love him or hate him, he gets shit done.

> Love him or hate him, he gets shit done.

That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini. The world besides Musk, before Musk, and after Musk (unless he destroys it) gets plenty of things done. 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him.

They get things done for some, and destroy and kill others. If he's so good - or even basically capable as a manager and leader - then like the others he can really get things done, by meeting all the goals and requirements, which includes the rights and welfare of everyone else.

And Twitter has worked out very poorly - possibly the most money-losing deal ever?

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#62

Post by ZeroGravitas »

formerly_proven wrote: post #4

… and VW drops 23 billion on RND each year, but I’m not seeing 6x the output compared to Tesla.

I was just watching a youtube video comparing the driver assist between Tesla and VW group (specifically an ID.3 in the video but commenters mentioned other group vehicles) and somewhat surprisingly to me, the consesus was that the VW tech was far better.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#63

Post by mmooss »

dsco wrote: post #30
Cumpiler69 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knew VW, it has way more people on payroll doing nothing for huge salaries than Imma-fire-80%-of-people Elon. Love him or hate him, he gets shit done.

It’s also a result of German unions. It’s practically impossible to fire people in the auto industry, so effectively what we do at VW is we have deadweight organisations where people end up if they are low performers and refuse to leave. The European auto industry is partly a charade to keep people employed.

Where is there a higher quality of life and are there better cars than in Germany? Maybe Japan?

Germany is arguably the most successful economy in the world, with the most successful manufacturing. And it benefits others besides the shareholders and executives. Maybe others should be following their model.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#64

Post by bko »

wongarsu wrote: post #37
syntaxing wrote: post #14

I haven’t worked in a revenue positive company for over 5 years. But prior to that, once a year, someone would sit at my desk asking for anything I did was “new” and how so. In the states, any “research” work is a tax write off. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mercedes is using this as well.

It's not just taxes, it's also important for your balance sheet. Which I imagine is important to a publicly listed company like Mercedes. If you pay someone $100.000 and they don't create anything, that's money you lost. But if you spend $100.000 on research or development (two subtly different things) there is the expectation that they created at least $100.000 of value that will be realized in future years. You did…

I don’t understand the tax implications. Employee salary is subtracted from gross earnings and not taxed. You have employment taxes but you have to pay those regardless. So how is an employee salary categorized as r&d a tax benefit?

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#66

Post by Cumpiler69 »

mmooss wrote: post #61
Cumpiler69 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knew VW, it has way more people on payroll doing nothing for huge salaries than Imma-fire-80%-of-people Elon. Love him or hate him, he gets shit done.

> Love him or hate him, he gets shit done. That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini. The world besides Musk, before Musk, and after Musk (unless he destroys it) gets plenty of things done. 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. They get things done for some, and destroy and kill others. If he's so good - or even basically capable as a manager and leader - then like the others he can reall…

> 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him.

Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, the entire PayPal Mafia, all of SV's big players did the same things or worse than Musk to create their trillion dollar empires, except more low-key and with less public exposure. They were all ruthless strong men. You don't get to build empires by "being nice".

Musk is the hate poster child of SV due to his excessive personality and massive social media exposure, but he's no worse than the other SV giants that don't leave the shadows and stay out of the limelight.

>That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini.

I should have stopped responding to you right here. Comparing a controversial tech entrepreneur to Mussolini is the ultimate -200 IQ exaggeration since comparisons like these denigrates the actual suffering people under Mussolini and other dictators had to endure.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#67

Post by mmooss »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #43
dsco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also a result of German unions. It’s practically impossible to fire people in the auto industry, so effectively what we do at VW is we have deadweight organisations where people end up if they are low performers and refuse to leave. The European auto industry is partly a charade to keep people employed.

>It’s also a result of German unions. I expect German politicians to defang the unions soon, similar to what they did with Agenda 2010 [1]. Yeah there will be some strikes and riots, but if the unions are causing an industry to be uncompetitive they're causing more harm than good. It's a shame because while unions are good on paper, over time they seem to default to protecting themselves at the expense of the industr…

> protecting themselves at the expense of the industry

Don't management and shareholders and finance do that? German car companies are among the most successful in the world - Germany and Japan sit at the pinnacle of car manufacturing.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#68

Post by mmooss »

Cumpiler69 wrote: post #66
mmooss wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Love him or hate him, he gets shit done. That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini. The world besides Musk, before Musk, and after Musk (unless he destroys it) gets plenty of things done. 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. They get things done for some, and destroy and kill others. If he's so good - or even basically capable as a manager and leader - then like the others he can reall…

> 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, the entire PayPal Mafia, all of SV's big players did the same things or worse than Musk to create their trillion dollar empires, except more low-key and with less public exposure. They were all ruthless strong men. You don't get to build empires by "being nice". Musk is the hate poster child of SV due to his excessive personal…

Who did Gates publicly call a pedophile? Who did Zuckerberg incite mass harassment against in order to terrorize them and drive them out of their workplace? Which of those people spread and incite hatred against Jewish people, immigrants, trans people, and endless more? Which of them openly backed a political candidate? Which openly and intentionally lied to their shareholders and the market?

In fact none of them did any of that - all these people succeeded, on incredible levels, without doing any of those things Musk does.

>> That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini.

> I should have stopped responding to you right here.

Why? Just address it on its merits.

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#69

Post by bdangubic »

mmooss wrote: post #61
Cumpiler69 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knew VW, it has way more people on payroll doing nothing for huge salaries than Imma-fire-80%-of-people Elon. Love him or hate him, he gets shit done.

> Love him or hate him, he gets shit done. That's the strongman argument, also used for people like Mussolini. The world besides Musk, before Musk, and after Musk (unless he destroys it) gets plenty of things done. 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. They get things done for some, and destroy and kill others. If he's so good - or even basically capable as a manager and leader - then like the others he can reall…

he bought full and entire control of America for measly $44bn, likely will be viewed later in history as the greatest investment ever made :)

he didnt buy twitter to make money off it, he bought it to control the masses and swing election - mission accomplished

Re: Mercedes spends $8bn/year on R&D

#70

Post by Cumpiler69 »

mmooss wrote: post #68
Cumpiler69 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 99% of Silicon Valley did it without him. Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, the entire PayPal Mafia, all of SV's big players did the same things or worse than Musk to create their trillion dollar empires, except more low-key and with less public exposure. They were all ruthless strong men. You don't get to build empires by "being nice". Musk is the hate poster child of SV due to his excessive personal…

Who did Gates publicly call a pedophile? Who did Zuckerberg incite mass harassment against in order to terrorize them and drive them out of their workplace? Which of those people spread and incite hatred against Jewish people, immigrants, trans people, and endless more? Which of them openly backed a political candidate? Which openly and intentionally lied to their shareholders and the market? In fact none of them did…

>Why?

Because it's waters down the massive suffering of people living under these dictators had to endure. Musk may not be a good guy by modern ethical standards, but he never caused millions to die or suffer like Mussolini so please lay off comparisons for which you don't understand the historical context.

You basically show you have no idea what you're talking about with such gross comparisons.

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