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Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

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Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are subtle differences between the two and not exactly the same.

That would be news to me, as both are pointing to the exact same GitHub repository[0]. Can you name the differences? [0]: https://github.com/docker/compose

Previous docker-compose was a separate program, written in Python if I remember correctly, people usually preferred to them as v1. Later docker incorporated it into the docker binary itself as a subcommand so that’s v2

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#62

Podman actually works really well. Out-of-the-box virtually-no-configuration-needed rootless containers. It's also usable via docker-compose with a single env variable. (podman-compose wasn't up to par for us) We've been using it for a couple of years running and managing hundreds of containers per server - no feeling of flakiness whatsoever. It's virtually zeroconf and even supports GPUs for those who need it. It's…

> Rooting for it.

No root necessary :)

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#63
post #25

Reading about Keycloak and how long it is taking to patch critical vulnerabilities, I wonder is CNCF becoming how Apache was - where abandoned open source software goes to die.

Hopefully the Keycloak thing will spur more competition. I looked at some alternatives and settled on Keycloak because it was "obviously" the mature and hardened solution. Well, clearly not.

I've replaced keycloak with https://goauthentik.io/ 2 years on, no complaints

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#65

Reading about Keycloak and how long it is taking to patch critical vulnerabilities, I wonder is CNCF becoming how Apache was - where abandoned open source software goes to die.

Last I checked, Keycloak has increased in activity since joining CNCF...

https://keycloak.devstats.cncf.io/d/1/activity-repository-gr...

CNCF has probably 20x the funding of the ASF and is a different organization that spends millions of dollars on security audits, events and more, you can read about it in our annual report: https://www.cncf.io/reports/cncf-annual-report-2023/

Also we actively remove/prune projects that aren't active... we will probably archive ~10 this year https://www.cncf.io/project-metrics/

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#66
post #44

Podman actually works really well. Out-of-the-box virtually-no-configuration-needed rootless containers. It's also usable via docker-compose with a single env variable. (podman-compose wasn't up to par for us) We've been using it for a couple of years running and managing hundreds of containers per server - no feeling of flakiness whatsoever. It's virtually zeroconf and even supports GPUs for those who need it. It's…

I vastly prefer it to Docker, especially buildah over buildx. Instead of inventing yet-another-dsl buildah allows you to simply use shell scripts (though it does also support dockerfiles). Another thing buildah is really good at is not doing much automatically: you can really optimize layers if you care to. The Podman ecosystem has given me a strong disliking of the Docker ecosystem, so I'm also rooting for it.

I think I might be the only one that prefers Docker for building Docker containers using CI.

I use Drone, but instead of using the Docker plugin I start a detached (background) Caddy server to work as a proxy to DOCKER_HOST. That lets me proxy to the local Docker socket to take advantage of caching, etc. while I'm iterating, but gives the option of spinning up docker-in-docker to get a clean environment, without any caching, and running a slower build that virtually identical to what happens on the CI server.

I find that having the daemon available solves a ton of issues that most of the CI provided builder plugins have. For example, with the builder plugins I'd always end up with a step like build-and-tag-and-push which didn't work very well for me. Now I can run discreet build steps like build, test, tag, push and it feels far more intuitive, at least to me.

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#67

Podman actually works really well. Out-of-the-box virtually-no-configuration-needed rootless containers. It's also usable via docker-compose with a single env variable. (podman-compose wasn't up to par for us) We've been using it for a couple of years running and managing hundreds of containers per server - no feeling of flakiness whatsoever. It's virtually zeroconf and even supports GPUs for those who need it. It's…

> Rooting for it.

I wanted to say something funny about "rooting" and "rootless", but it's probably too silly. :)

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#68
post #67

Podman actually works really well. Out-of-the-box virtually-no-configuration-needed rootless containers. It's also usable via docker-compose with a single env variable. (podman-compose wasn't up to par for us) We've been using it for a couple of years running and managing hundreds of containers per server - no feeling of flakiness whatsoever. It's virtually zeroconf and even supports GPUs for those who need it. It's…

> Rooting for it. I wanted to say something funny about "rooting" and "rootless", but it's probably too silly. :)

Ruthlessly rooting for rootless!

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#69
post #26

To all those interested in podman, this book by Daniel Walsh is a gem. Highly recommended and it is free. https://developers.redhat.com/e-books/podman-action

Important to note, this book is from early 2023 and supports Podman version 4.1. It's missing newer features like quadlets. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/quadlet-podman

Yes. Definitely already needs a second edition. I would happily buy it.

Re: Red Hat to contribute container tech (Podman, bootc, ComposeFS...) to CNCF

#70
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my take as well. Red Hat's design choices fit into Linux much more neatly. Docker has always been rubbish with late cgroups v2 support, punching holes in my firewall, no rootless, etc.

> punching holes in my firewall I teach various Linux training courses. One of which is Containers. It always shocks several people per-class how Docker just blatantly ignores and rewrites existing firewall rules. And there's no real option to prevent that unless you want to manually configure ALL network routing. For me personally, that was one of the big issues the pushed me over to Podman. Also, Docker's insistenc…

> It always shocks several people per-class how Docker just blatantly ignores and rewrites existing firewall rules.

Yeah. Many times I've mentioned that to people, and they just don't believe it's a thing which Docker does. Including here on HN. :/

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