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Google banned me from Google Voice

dannyguo.com

61–70 of 152 posts

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#61
post #22

Was the number used to sign up for, and receive communications from credit card companies? Is the ban related to signing up for +100 cards? https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/my-credit-and-debit-card-colle...

Is it a violation of any of the policies?

Maybe not but I bet that this many unique credit card emails eventually tripped over some threshold in a risk model. It’s too hard to adjust the model for one person, and putting in an exception for this one person means they take on additional risk if that person then goes on to actually do bad things.

To be clear I’m not saying it’s ok. Google should make it right and then invest in a scalable way to not keep doing this.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#62

Not to address the author of the article specifically, but only all readers generally.... I would suggest that the moment you chose to have a critical dependency on someone else's services, it becomes incumbent on you to have a disaster recovery plan should that service suddenly become unavailable to you. How formal or intense such a plan is may depend on if you're an individual or a small/mid-sized business that's t…

I understand the philosophy of where you're coming from, but I think it is blind to an important dynamic. This isn't just a matter of freely choosing to depend on someone else's service, take-it-or-leave-it. We live in a world of two-sided markets, where the mere existence of a popular service starts to reshape the world, altering the choices available to you.

In 1999, you could freely choose not to have a cellphone, because payphones were abundant. As cellphones became more popular, payphones disappeared; meanwhile, other services such as banks began to require you to have a number that could receive SMS messages. As smartphones reached mass adoption, it became a safe assumption that most people could access an android or iphone app, and support for other paths (such as a web browser) began to decrease, even for essential services.

I can freely choose to watch videos on YouTube or not, and freely refuse to do so if I don't like it. But I also realize that by YouTube merely existing and being popular, it creates a gravity well. Creators stay on YouTube because their audiences are there, and viewers stay there because the channels they follow are there. By merely existing, the oxygen available to other potential services that I could freely choose is reduced.

I can choose not to drive a car, but the choice of many other people to drive cars results in roads, services, and cities designed to meet their needs, rather than mine. This reduces my freedom to opt out of car ownership. And if McDonalds didn't offer a car-only 24-hour drive-thru, there would be unmet demand by hungry people late at night that might provide enough business for another company to open a 24-hour cafe. As it is, McDonalds services enough of that demand, and if the non-drivers have no midnight food options, it's their fault for being too small of a market to be worthwhile.

The dynamics of these gravity wells is important to acknowledge, and I think it does create a responsibility on the operators of these services to their customers beyond that of someone freely using their service by uncompelled choice. Because they are, to some degree compelled, and the compulsion comes from the existence of that service removing oxygen from the competitors that would have otherwise appeared to meet those needs. The model of "I'm voluntarily offering you a service that you otherwise wouldn't have had; it's my right to simply choose to stop offering it to you" is too simple.

(Edit: But practically speaking, I do think what you say is good advice and I don't disagree with it. I'm only objecting to the moral philosophy behind it. Kind of like I agree that pedestrians should wear bright clothing and reflective stripes to avoid getting hit by cars at night, even though it's the drivers' moral responsibility to not hit those pedestrians).

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#63
post #49
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually not Google’s phone number, as evidenced by the fact that he could have gone to the FCC and gotten it back if Google refused to release it to him. Edited to add: Also, it’s not true that phone numbers are only so important because of identity verification. That is one reason, but solving that doesn’t let my children’s school call me if Google shuts my number down, just to give one example. Edited to add…

> It’s actually not Google’s phone number IANAL, but according to the Reddit post mentioned in this thread, the number isn't yours: " Consumer Google Voice is not a FCC-regulated Local Exchange Carrier, and you have no explicit nor implied rights to the indefinite use of Google Voice telephone numbers. " "If you want to port the number out of the suspended service, you can file a FCC Consumer Complaint, asking for th…

That’s interesting. Very unclear to me whether it says what you think it says. The emphasis seems to be on Google Voice service, not the number itself. I would expect the FCC complaint asking for number porting to go nowhere if Google didn’t believe they were required to release the number for porting.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#64
He was also targeted by Google's automated system? Odd, he was not so lucky.

> My only worry has been that it seems like another product that Google could easily decide to kill off and send to the Google graveyard at any moment.

I feel the same way about Blogger, and I even had a page on Blogger that was banned after I signed in on their Android app. This was around 2020-2021 and I only requested a manual approval by an email button IIRC, that got that page back up as fast as it got taken down.

It is sad that Google Voice and Blogger are neglected enough for this to happen.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I should not have assumed that Google voice numbers provided for free are portable. Or at least not immediately released back to the pool of available numbers. It is a free service, so I expected to not have any right to it. I also feel like my only use for phone numbers for many years has been identity verification. If I lost access to it, I could be reached via multiple other communications avenues, but I ca…

That’s certainly a wise expectation, but that doesn’t make it right that the company can do that, whether you pay them or not. The fact that the FCC recognizes your right to the phone number you’ve been using (regardless of payment) is instructive. Edited to add: from other comments, the FCC requiring them to release the number might actually be wrong. It’s possible that it is just Google being wise themselves to avo…

> but that doesn’t make it right that the company can do that, whether you pay them or not.

Yes, I just wanted to highlight that the focus on fixing this vulnerability should not have anything to do with Google, but rather elected leaders doing their job to protect everyone in society. Similar to blaming banks for closing accounts for seemingly no reason.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#66

Not to address the author of the article specifically, but only all readers generally.... I would suggest that the moment you chose to have a critical dependency on someone else's services, it becomes incumbent on you to have a disaster recovery plan should that service suddenly become unavailable to you. How formal or intense such a plan is may depend on if you're an individual or a small/mid-sized business that's t…

the only protection against losing a phone number is to have a second phone number and alternative communication channels. with friends and family that works just fine. with businesses it doesn't. most of them only allow me to specify one number. and if they use that for 2FA, you may be stuck if the number is lost.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#67
I've a very simple rule after multiple bad experiences dealing with google products: I'm never going to pay for any google service or product ever again. If its free I'll use it, and make sure i can move my data off it when (not if) they decide to shutter it.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so absurd that we used to complain about customer service from phone companies etc. and fled them for tech companies whose business models are defined by being scaled so high that customer service is impossible for them to offer.

business models are defined by being scaled so high that customer service is impossible for them to offer. It's not impossible. The people at Google choose not to have customer service in order to maximize profits, rather than do the right thing. Google has enough money to provide customer service. Customer service isn't going to bankrupt Google.

> people at Google choose not to have customer service in order to maximize profits, rather than do the right thing

And millions of people decided to make a company with no customer service their primary phone provider because it is free. Free comes with tradeoffs.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#69
Welcome to the club! My Adsense account was banned years ago with no explanation or anything. They even stole my balance. I've heard of similar horror stories of people losing years worth of email and other data with no recourse. As machine learning algorithms become more widespread, expect this to become even more common with a lot of services. Whether paid or free, you're just a number and can be disabled at anytime whenever their flawed algorithms flag you for any reason. I've been actively switching away from Google as much as possible and encourage others to do the same. For email, I use custom domain (still hosted on old Google Apps) so I can switch whenever needed.

Re: Google banned me from Google Voice

#70
post #13

He should be more mad, in my opinion. It’s ludicrous that Google can simply kill your phone number and nobody bats an eye. It’s such a fundamental part of life at this point. At the minimum, users should get a “We are no longer willing to provide you service. You have two weeks before service will end. Please switch your number to another provider if you want to keep it.” Other than non-payment, are there other phone…

> ludicrous that Google can simply kill your phone number and nobody bats an eye

A free phone number. That comes from a company notorious for no customer service.

It’s not at all justified behaviour. But it isn’t unexpected and it’s irritating that it will probably take other peoples’ resources, i.e. public resources, to resolve.

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