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Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

ucsf.edu

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Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#61

Post by crossroadsguy »

eagleinparadise wrote: post #3

I'm approaching midlife and noticing the quality of my sleep has declined. I can't sleep in anymore. Sometimes I'm waking up in the middle of the night occasionally and something I'm wide awake because I'm thinking about work or something like that. Very frustrating. Another reminder to try to pull myself away from the screens late at night.

Not there yet (or maybe I am, going by my country's average male lifespan), but after years of wondering what the fuck sometimes happens I finally realised what mostly causes sleep issues for me:

- not getting rid of screens at least 30 mins before I hit the bed (60 is ideal)

- not getting tired/exercise enough during the day

- sleeping in the afternoon and anytime during the day more than 40-50 mins

- having coffee after 4-5pm

- having dinner after 8-830pm (though this is minor and I am not really sure it affects much)

- and this is the biggest culprit of all (or maybe second worst - next to screen time): even though it's past my sleep time (1030pm) not actually just getting down on the bed and close my eyes and just try to relax even though it seems maybe I am not sleepy. This also applies if I wake up before my wake up time and I do not force myself to go back to sleep that is at least "kinda" pretend i.e just lie down closing my eyes.

What helps:

- reading myself to sleep (paper books are what I read, so not sure about e-readers)

- hot chocolate (half glass) after dinner but 10-15 mins before hitting the bed

- allergy medication (when it becomes unbearable for me) :D (no it's rare for me to take that and I don't take without asking my doctor)

- listening to rain/thunder sound on my phone from a distance

- if there are things pending or things bothering in my head → then heading to my ToDo list "TCOT" (abbr. for take care of this) in Reminders.app and log/dump it there before hitting the bed → I have noticed that those things usually do not bother me at night then (but I don't have much personal/anecdotal data on this either)

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#62

Post by euroderf »

graeme wrote: post #21
eagleinparadise wrote: post #3

I'm approaching midlife and noticing the quality of my sleep has declined. I can't sleep in anymore. Sometimes I'm waking up in the middle of the night occasionally and something I'm wide awake because I'm thinking about work or something like that. Very frustrating. Another reminder to try to pull myself away from the screens late at night.

Two low impact things to try are: * A very small amount of melatonin. .300 to .500 mg. * Breathe right strips, these increase airflow Other health issues can also cause wakefulness.

Melatonin gave me nightmares. So, YMMV.

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#63

Post by amonon »

graeme wrote: post #21
eagleinparadise wrote: post #3

I'm approaching midlife and noticing the quality of my sleep has declined. I can't sleep in anymore. Sometimes I'm waking up in the middle of the night occasionally and something I'm wide awake because I'm thinking about work or something like that. Very frustrating. Another reminder to try to pull myself away from the screens late at night.

Two low impact things to try are: * A very small amount of melatonin. .300 to .500 mg. * Breathe right strips, these increase airflow Other health issues can also cause wakefulness.

I will add a comment in support of the very low dose of melatonin. I take 1mg, same as another user, but will experiment with dropping it. I find that it works best if I take it some time before I plan to sleep. Currently I have a reminder set for 9:15 and I fall asleep between 10:30 and 11:30 most nights.

I am a historically terrible sleeper but the past year has been the best sleep of my life. Here is my overall process:

Bedtime routine: 1mg Melatonin at 9:15ish. Don blue light blocking glasses. My understanding is that the science behind these is mostly bunk but they help me. (Probably because of a general reduction in light and the psychological routine). Read book outloud w/wife and then watch a boring youtube video. If the youtube video is interesting, it's not good. Books are also not good because I find them too entertaining.

Day routine: Wake up early, ish. Eat more food early than late. Exercise. Focus on using up energy at work or during the day. I am working on getting 30 min of sunlight every morning.

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#64

Post by fsckboy »

timr wrote: post #38
macrael wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the public results only[1] (I don't have a copy of the whole study) they studied the following things looking for correlation with brain decline: * short sleep duration * sleep quality * difficulty initiating sleep (DIS) * difficulty maintaining sleep (DMS) * early morning awakening (EMA) * daytime sleepiness They only found that the middle four were correlated. I don't know what exactly "sleep quality" is but t…

Also, worth saying: these things were based on self-reported data , which is basically crap. >To estimate the effects of sleep quality on the brain, the researchers surveyed approximately 600 adults on how well they slept. The participants were asked the same questions five years later and underwent brain scans 10 years after this. This is press-release science. Maybe the latter three things you can remember, but I h…

self-reported data is basically crap as it regards actual sleep patterns, but it could (hypothetically) be a rock solid predictor of brain shrinkage

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#65

Post by timr »

fsckboy wrote: post #64
timr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, worth saying: these things were based on self-reported data , which is basically crap. >To estimate the effects of sleep quality on the brain, the researchers surveyed approximately 600 adults on how well they slept. The participants were asked the same questions five years later and underwent brain scans 10 years after this. This is press-release science. Maybe the latter three things you can remember, but I h…

self-reported data is basically crap as it regards actual sleep patterns, but it could (hypothetically) be a rock solid predictor of brain shrinkage

You can't just take crap data and compare it to a hard outcome and claim victory if you find a correlation.

Crap data is crap, no matter what you compare it to.

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#66

Post by fsckboy »

timr wrote: post #65
fsckboy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

self-reported data is basically crap as it regards actual sleep patterns, but it could (hypothetically) be a rock solid predictor of brain shrinkage

You can't just take crap data and compare it to a hard outcome and claim victory if you find a correlation. Crap data is crap, no matter what you compare it to.

you're wrong. The only evidence we have for gravity is the correlation of mass and attraction. The theory of gravity does not contain any hint of a reason why, it simply points out what we can observe. Correlation is the only evidence we have.

And you have not ruled out that complaining about sleep in various ways isn't a direct side effect of brain shrinkage so the hypothesis remains open.

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#67

Post by graeme »

euroderf wrote: post #62
graeme wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two low impact things to try are: * A very small amount of melatonin. .300 to .500 mg. * Breathe right strips, these increase airflow Other health issues can also cause wakefulness.

Melatonin gave me nightmares. So, YMMV.

In low doses? But yeah definitely a YMMV situation

Re: Insomnia, but not lack of sleep, may hasten brain shrinkage: study

#68

Post by bob_theslob646 »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #61
eagleinparadise wrote: post #3

I'm approaching midlife and noticing the quality of my sleep has declined. I can't sleep in anymore. Sometimes I'm waking up in the middle of the night occasionally and something I'm wide awake because I'm thinking about work or something like that. Very frustrating. Another reminder to try to pull myself away from the screens late at night.

Not there yet (or maybe I am, going by my country's average male lifespan), but after years of wondering what the fuck sometimes happens I finally realised what mostly causes sleep issues for me: - not getting rid of screens at least 30 mins before I hit the bed (60 is ideal) - not getting tired/exercise enough during the day - sleeping in the afternoon and anytime during the day more than 40-50 mins - having coffee…

>hot chocolate (half glass) after dinner but 10-15 mins before hitting the bed Could this not be a sugar shock helping you fall asleep?
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