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Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

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Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#61

Post by ivewonyoung »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #9
hansonkd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't say those minerals degrade, however it also fails to reiterate the linked paper's reason: > The high rate of magnesium deficiency now postulated [5–8] can be attributed in part to a steady decline in general magnesium content in cultivated fruits and vegetables, a reflection of the observed depletion of magnesium in soil over the past 100 years > Increasing demand for food has caused modern farmin…

One of my unorthodox views is that the popular blue light obsession is exacerbated by magnesium deficiency, given how hard it is to get enough in our diets. Yes, blue light disrupts melatonin and makes it harder to get to bed. But magnesium disrupts sleep quality and deregulates melatonin production in the first place and makes one particularly sensitive to blue light.

Also Lithium, proven in studies.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#62

Post by snypher »

hansonkd wrote: post #4

> That means it had been a year since the apples he bought were actually picked I've been saying for a while that instead of focusing on "best by" dates, food suppliers should be forced to put on the harvest or manufactured date. "Fresh" Apples being sold after a year is nothing compared to how old some of the food you by in the freezer, or boxed section. Manufacturers and store owners are the ones that benefit the m…

Well, it's not like the barista bakes the bagels.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#63

Post by tomxor »

mythrwy wrote: post #60
tomxor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there is some contribution of nutrient deficiency to obesity, nutrition is too complex to assume otherwise. However I'm not convinced it's the main driver, although the change in diet required to control intake usually improves nutrition as a side effect. To be more concrete, the single correct part about "calories" is that the quantity matters, but the only practical road to keeping that under control is be…

One thing I have learned gardening is the importance of microflora. Which we also have in our guts. Another theory I have (again, no idea if it's true) is that when people consume carbohydrates as the bulk of their diet for length of time the gut microflora changes to species that prefer those. And they signal to the person "hey, you need some dinner rolls right now!".

> when people consume carbohydrates as the bulk of their diet for length of time the gut microflora changes to species that prefer those

This is fairly well supported by studies, it even affects oral health. Although the idea of "good" vs "bad" bacteria is more to do with displacing bacteria that processes food into undesirable compounds with something more inert, e.g in the mouth the bacteria that causes tooth decay processes sugar into acid, but in some people this is naturally displaced by another bacteria that when dominant will produce a compound that kills the acid producing bacteria while producing no acid or enamel eroding compounds itself - maybe the natural dominance of that bacteria is affected by absence of excessive sugar intake over ones lifetime, or maybe it's just luck, or a bit of both... but much like gut bacteria, to actively change the dominant bacteria seems to either require a persistent and gradual change in diet, or a shorter and much harsher measure to eliminate the existing population.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#64

Post by fnordpiglet »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #9
hansonkd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't say those minerals degrade, however it also fails to reiterate the linked paper's reason: > The high rate of magnesium deficiency now postulated [5–8] can be attributed in part to a steady decline in general magnesium content in cultivated fruits and vegetables, a reflection of the observed depletion of magnesium in soil over the past 100 years > Increasing demand for food has caused modern farmin…

One of my unorthodox views is that the popular blue light obsession is exacerbated by magnesium deficiency, given how hard it is to get enough in our diets. Yes, blue light disrupts melatonin and makes it harder to get to bed. But magnesium disrupts sleep quality and deregulates melatonin production in the first place and makes one particularly sensitive to blue light.

Magnesium is also a mineral that is under supplied by multivitamins due to the bulk required. This is why I take a magnesium supplement on top of a multivitamin. Given the state of vegetables today it seems wise and I feel much better with it.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#65

Post by mimim1mi »

marcosdumay wrote: post #42
miltonlost wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the author states it's unverifiable data: The chart has unverified information "The average mineral content of calcium, magnesium, and iron in cabbage, lettuce, tomatoes, and spinach has dropped 80-90% between 1914 and 2018 30,34,35,36,371. Asterisks indicate numbers could not be independently verified."

If you reduce the amount of magnesium in a plant by 80%, it dies. It could possibly vary in fruits, so the tomatoes get a pass. But leaves need a pretty constant amount.

Just a guess, but could this be caused by the longer and longer supply chains over the past century?

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#66

Post by jiggawatts »

hammock wrote: post #12
hansonkd wrote: post #4

> That means it had been a year since the apples he bought were actually picked I've been saying for a while that instead of focusing on "best by" dates, food suppliers should be forced to put on the harvest or manufactured date. "Fresh" Apples being sold after a year is nothing compared to how old some of the food you by in the freezer, or boxed section. Manufacturers and store owners are the ones that benefit the m…

Frozen vegetables are often blanched and flash frozen at the peak of freshness. In many cases they are “fresher” than what you find in the produce section

Rory Sutherland makes this point, that because some products are cheaper to manufacture and keep in stock (like frozen veggies), they're perceived to be less healthy than "fresh".

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#67

Post by kevincox »

hansonkd wrote: post #4

> That means it had been a year since the apples he bought were actually picked I've been saying for a while that instead of focusing on "best by" dates, food suppliers should be forced to put on the harvest or manufactured date. "Fresh" Apples being sold after a year is nothing compared to how old some of the food you by in the freezer, or boxed section. Manufacturers and store owners are the ones that benefit the m…

I wouldn't expect a logistics company to actually own farms. They are promising to buy some standard of produce (organic , local, fresh, whatever they promised...) and get it to me.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#68

Post by aziaziazi »

ghostly_s wrote: post #49
biot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like all these other factors should matter too! The way I read it was that there are some minerals that are no longer there to begin with because they're simply not in the soil. For nutrients (like vitamin C) created as part of the growing process, speed is the only factor that matters. So yes, it does matter but unless you have a way of knowing which farm(s) the produce came from and what their soil mineral…

But you don't typically have any reliable info about how fresh produce is either?

Smell, look and touch. You can even taste in some cases.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#69

Post by hirako2000 »

philipkglass wrote: post #31
hirako2000 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not contradicting your view that the article isn't very diligent, but have you heard of oxidation? Atoms constantly react to the environment, they can bond with other atoms, form new compounds. Oxidation time varies, in the case of potassium it is very fast, the claims in the articles would stand. For vitamins, it also depends. I got into a rabbit hole a few years back, digging into numbers from multiple academic sou…

Not contradicting your view that the article isn't very diligent, but have you heard of oxidation? Atoms constantly react to the environment, they can bond with other atoms, form new compounds. Oxidation time varies, in the case of potassium it is very fast, the claims in the articles would stand. Potassium, calcium, and magnesium are always fully oxidized in foods. These elements are very reactive with water and oxy…

I will read up some more, thank you.

Re: Nutrient levels in retail grocery stores

#70

Post by aziaziazi »

patrickhogan1 wrote: post #24

From article “Side note on frozen produce: The post above is about fresh produce only. A potentially appealing alternative may be buying frozen produce, which on average has equal or higher nutritional content than fresh. This is because frozen produce is picked at peak ripeness then frozen shortly after, locking in most of the nutrients at the expense of appearance/texture/flavor.”

I read that high temperatures degrade some nutrients (vite ?), not all at the same speed/temp.

What about frozen? I’m happy to know most of the nutrients handle it, is there known exceptions?

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