Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#61

Post by Hikikomori » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 1:09 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #24

Hikikomori wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Vanguard runs on Ring 0. -> Ring 3 software can also read your hdd so is not a problem. Can also read process memory of the same user.

Can't read files or access memory of other users though, which is kind of the point. It's trivially easy to run games as a different user than the one you use for e.g. banking, and operating systems have had fast user switching for decades.

If we only have user space anticheat we might as well have no anticheat at all. Its not like anticheat uses kernel because its fun, cheats moved there to be undetected before anticheat had to.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#62

Post by lxgr » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

dgfitz wrote: post #13

haunter wrote: post #12

HN has a lot of very clever people. Solving online game cheating is a billion dollar business.

My first thought there would be to just build up randomness entropy on game launch, and when mouse movements/keyboard events break that, detected. I assume I’m missing something.

The problem isn't only detecting suspicious statistical or computational patterns, it's doing the detection on a device you ultimately don't control, and entirely in software (at least for PCs, at least for now).

With enough effort, all software can be virtualized, and whether the defender's effort can even theoretically be scaled more easily than the attacker's is an open question.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#63

Post by Hikikomori » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 1:19 PM UTC

lomase wrote: post #58

Hikikomori wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And CS is completely overrun with cheaters. I don't play Dota like games but afaik they all have effective obfuscation, so ESP/wallhack like cheats aren't effective. But they have some auto aim cheats for abilities.

CS and Dota are not overrun by cheaters, millions of people play those games every day with no problem.

I don't know if CS2 is any different but while CSGO didn't have a cheater in every single game it was at least 1-2 in 10 in ranked games at global elite level from my experience playing it on and off for many years (beta 0.6 to a few years ago). At that level they usually only use ESP/wallhack and toggle aim assist to avoid getting banned through overwatch. Was very common for them to toggle halfway through a game or so to avoid losing or if they think someone else is cheating.

Depends on your definition of overrun, I did use it a bit hyperbolically, but it seems you have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#64

Post by lomase » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #63

lomase wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CS and Dota are not overrun by cheaters, millions of people play those games every day with no problem.

I don't know if CS2 is any different but while CSGO didn't have a cheater in every single game it was at least 1-2 in 10 in ranked games at global elite level from my experience playing it on and off for many years (beta 0.6 to a few years ago). At that level they usually only use ESP/wallhack and toggle aim assist to avoid getting banned through overwatch. Was very common for them to toggle halfway through a game or…

You are the one who can't come up with a good argument and have to resort to personal attacks. I call that a falacy.

I have been playing CS for +20 years.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#65

Post by dgfitz » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 3:12 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #40

dgfitz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought there would be to just build up randomness entropy on game launch, and when mouse movements/keyboard events break that, detected. I assume I’m missing something.

??? how does that defeat cheats?

I guess my thought was, if a cursor just "jumps" or moves quickly in a mathematically straight line, probably an indicator. Or if inputs had almost the exact time gap between them for a series of actions.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#66

Post by Hikikomori » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 5:56 PM UTC

lomase wrote: post #64

Hikikomori wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if CS2 is any different but while CSGO didn't have a cheater in every single game it was at least 1-2 in 10 in ranked games at global elite level from my experience playing it on and off for many years (beta 0.6 to a few years ago). At that level they usually only use ESP/wallhack and toggle aim assist to avoid getting banned through overwatch. Was very common for them to toggle halfway through a game or…

You are the one who can't come up with a good argument and have to resort to personal attacks. I call that a falacy. I have been playing CS for +20 years.

If CS is not overrun with cheaters why do we have faceit and other off ranked leagues with stronger anticheat?

Personal "insult" as your comment was so wrong I didn't know where to begin.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#67

Post by lomase » Thu, Oct 31, 2024, 6:48 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #66

lomase wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are the one who can't come up with a good argument and have to resort to personal attacks. I call that a falacy. I have been playing CS for +20 years.

If CS is not overrun with cheaters why do we have faceit and other off ranked leagues with stronger anticheat? Personal "insult" as your comment was so wrong I didn't know where to begin.

It seems you have no idea what you are talking about.

(See I can do it too! I am attacking you, your knoledge, your inteligence, not your comment. And the "best" part is that sentence can be used to "win" any argument!)

There is no point in this conversation, have a nice day.

Re: Why anti-cheat software utilizes kernel drivers (2020)

#68

Post by sngz » Tue, Nov 05, 2024, 8:31 PM UTC

Hikikomori wrote: post #23

sngz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SK has it under control but people would never implement the same measures in the US and EU

Having to register with your personal id number? Remember getting those to play Korean WoW beta.

yes, and cheating in tournaments get you thrown in jail