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BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

ft.com

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Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#61

Post by adriancr »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #46
teruakohatu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most glaring issue is the battery which is really its weakest part. What are the issues? I thought BYD batteries were as good as they get? I am pretty sure Teslas sold in my country (NZ) have BYD batteries.

If OP is comparing their experience in your BYD to Tesla's marketing material, that's not a correct comparison. Tesla battery ranges should generally be derated quite a bit to align them with how the rest of the industry measures range.

Perhaps subjective but in my own experience range on tesla is slightly more then what was rated.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#62

Post by freeone3000 »

tivert wrote: post #58
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Though depending on the wording, they may be able to just build a plant in Mexico and take advantage of NAFTA. I can't tell from the whitehouse post on the tariff if it's tied to country of the manufacturer or just country of origin (usually it's origin).

> Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Yeah, due to Chinese state subsidies and other assistance, China has a competitive advantage in automobile manufacturing as well as in many other areas. The US needs to show its commitment to free market principles and lets its auto industry die already.

It would probably be better for the consumer.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#63

Post by Kon5ole »

echelon wrote: post #31
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Though depending on the wording, they may be able to just build a plant in Mexico and take advantage of NAFTA. I can't tell from the whitehouse post on the tariff if it's tied to country of the manufacturer or just country of origin (usually it's origin).

> Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). They're dumping domestic overproduction on foreign markets. You do that long enough and you can weaken your foreign competitors in their domestic strongholds. This can destroy high-value domestic jobs, lead to atrophy of expertise, and is especially bad to "strategic" sectors of the do…

VW's former boss mentioned in an interview that it took VW 3 times as long to make a car than it does for Tesla. So I think that while there may be some dumping as well, the main explanation is efficiency.

A company that builds a robotic factory from scratch and that only makes electric cars will be able to make cheaper cars than one who already has a huge headcount of combustion car workers. Auto workers are unionised and often working in factories bound by political agreements. You can't just close the combustion engine plant or reeducate everyone to make electric engines, it's years of negotiations.

If you start from scratch you don't have that problem, and you don't need to include that cost into the price of your cars.

That said, it makes perfect sense for a civilised society to protect their workers while they are reeducated and reassigned to new work by blocking foreign competition. But only for a while, while going all-in on the required changes.

Reality can't be ignored forever.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#64

Post by jajko »

tivert wrote: post #58
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Though depending on the wording, they may be able to just build a plant in Mexico and take advantage of NAFTA. I can't tell from the whitehouse post on the tariff if it's tied to country of the manufacturer or just country of origin (usually it's origin).

> Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Yeah, due to Chinese state subsidies and other assistance, China has a competitive advantage in automobile manufacturing as well as in many other areas. The US needs to show its commitment to free market principles and lets its auto industry die already.

The ideal 'free market' you are referring to doesn't exist in real world. Every single country out there champions their own companies, giving them as much unfair advantage as they can while punishing any competition as much as possible, for mostly good and rational reasons. US is no different. The rest is history, and thats written by victors.

Even say EU vs US is not so rosy in trade wars. Remember how German government played down VW's dieselgate? Every single state has something similar, even if not on same scale.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#65

Post by com2kid »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #14
daedrdev wrote: post #10

I think the wave of tariffs is showing that fundamentally cars are becoming low margin businesses with the rise of electric cars, which is good for consumers and bad for producers.

Cars was always a low margin business, that's why no one makes them anymore. Car OEMs contracted out every component and system possible. Almost all the value in modern cars is various tiers of suppliers. There's a Mercedes model they contracted out even final assembly. They went to the same Jack Welch school of business that boeing did and thought they were clever not being responsible for anything and could just be…

Historically the value was in knowing how to build reliable, clean burning, engines.

China never managed to catch up to other countries in terms of making combustion engines (it is incredibly hard, and from what I grok they were a generation or two behind), but EVs are mechanically much simpler.

What's more, BYD is following Tesla's playbook of vertical integration and making components inhouse to save money vs outsourcing everything.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#66

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

fastball wrote: post #48
mrguyorama wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla just couldn't win the competition. Sure some people are avoiding Tesla because of Elon, but they only say that because there ARE other options. Those self same people often continue to use Twitter because they just cannot stand the FOMO of not being always online, despite it being Elon's personal echo chamber. Tesla did well initially because they dared to sell a normal car that happened to use electricity. Oth…

Half of all electric vehicles sold in the US are still Teslas, so I hardly think the competition has caught up.

> Half of all electric vehicles sold in the US are still Teslas

* 48% And still falling.

https://caredge.com/guides/electric-vehicle-market-share-and...

the competition for EVs is becoming every automaker you have ever heard of (1), as well as some you haven't. Any one of them maintaining high market share is ever harder.

1) With the exception of Toyota.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#67

Post by jajko »

hevt wrote: post #52

This has been a long time coming. I don't agree with a few of the other commenters on the efficacy of tariffs, I think it will just punish US consumers while allowing Tesla to grow fat on state largesse.

Well mr musk's election escapades don't look so stupid now, do they?

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#68

Post by [deleted] »

_mlbt wrote: post #49
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only reason they wouldn't take off outside China is the astronomical tariffs the West are putting on Chinese cars (100% in the US). Though depending on the wording, they may be able to just build a plant in Mexico and take advantage of NAFTA. I can't tell from the whitehouse post on the tariff if it's tied to country of the manufacturer or just country of origin (usually it's origin).

For me it’s not so much about the tariffs. Personally, I have concerns about driving a network connected car that is ultimately controlled by one of my country’s main geopolitical adversaries. There is a nonzero chance that if war breaks out between them, best case they spy on me or brick some functionality, and worst case they weaponize a software update to do something malicious. EDIT: Just to clarify, I would love…

[deleted]

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#69

Post by darknavi »

linkgoron wrote: post #23

I've been happily driving a BYD Atto 3 for ~6 months now. Very happy with it, its got a lot of nice software and hardware features, carplay/android auto works well, driving is nice and very smooth (especially on sport mode), and my daughter loves playing with the "strings" on the doors. The most glaring issue is the battery which is really its weakest part. Is it better than a Tesla? Probably not - there are clearly…

> (e.g. the "360" parking view which IMO could be a bit better, although I feel like I'm parking in gta 2)

FWIW Tesla doesn't have 360 parking camera support. They have a digital visualization and a few cameras pop up, but no full 360 camera setup.

Re: BYD quarterly sales beat Tesla for first time

#70

Post by throwaway48476 »

com2kid wrote: post #65
throwaway48476 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars was always a low margin business, that's why no one makes them anymore. Car OEMs contracted out every component and system possible. Almost all the value in modern cars is various tiers of suppliers. There's a Mercedes model they contracted out even final assembly. They went to the same Jack Welch school of business that boeing did and thought they were clever not being responsible for anything and could just be…

Historically the value was in knowing how to build reliable, clean burning, engines. China never managed to catch up to other countries in terms of making combustion engines (it is incredibly hard, and from what I grok they were a generation or two behind), but EVs are mechanically much simpler. What's more, BYD is following Tesla's playbook of vertical integration and making components inhouse to save money vs outso…

They also invested early in battery technology. China was able to build a competitive battery industry with state support and little environmental protection.
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