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We're forking Flutter

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Re: We're forking Flutter

#61
post #26

Key statement: "As Flock ships important bug fixes and features, the Flutter team can then choose to add those to Flutter, on their schedule. " I see a lot of negative comments but I think this will be a net positive over time to the Flutter community and to the technology itself. I think it will also give Google a reality check on the needs of the community.

Agree, if it pans out this way in reality of course. That'd be splendid!

NodeJS went through something similar. It was tightly controlled by a single company (Joyent) who were juggling too many balls, and progress went slowly. Community people did a fork (io.js) which shipped improvements faster, but they did so in a careful non-shitty way. This made lots of people switch to io.js, so that eventually NodeJS merged with io.js (iirc they just renamed the latest io.js "NodeJS").

I don't know of any other instances of community forks of company-controlled OSS that did something similar though. If this is just one guy who made a blog post, like a sibling comment suggests it might be, then it might not pan out this way.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#63

Words are cheap. Seems like: - guy wants to add PR more aggressively to a code base than Flutter currently is - isn’t clear if they have a concept of handling compatibility between fork and original - why not be a labor organizing entity and work with the flutter team? Some of the PR that I am aware of that are stale and could be good candidates - are difficult design decisions and stakes need to be put in the group.…

Note that I know nothing of the Flutter team/culture and am only answering generally:

>why not be a labor organizing entity and work with the flutter team?

Depends on the maintainers/team. I've definitely seen many a bureaucracy that slows down FOSS to a crawl of bug fixes and feature progression. If you make enough PRs that are ignored for weeks or months, you'll realize this isn't really a team ready for nor interested in a proper FOSS environment and it's instead mostly "that teams code that happens to be readable".

Their official answer seems to suggest as much:

>But, sadly, trying to work with the Flutter team delivers a different reality. While some developers have had success working with the Flutter team, many other developers have found it frustrating, if not unworkable.

I guess we'll see. I'm way more of the mentality of "actions speak louder" so I'm not really one to announce my plans until I get something worthwhile off the ground (in this case, a few stale PR's that feel like game changers to the customers). But that's not a mentality modern social media rewards.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#64
post #17

They estimate there are one million Flutter developers/users. Have I been sleeping under a rock?

Assuming there are 20 million software engineers in the world writing code professionally, 1 million Flutter developers seems massively optimistic.

Yes. Realistically off by at least a magnitude. There is literally zero chance there's 1 million active developers working on this experimental Google Tech out there.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#66
> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong.

I doubt google have even 50 flutter devs in their team. You can easily estimate by checking github pulse:

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/pulse/monthly

https://github.com/flutter/engine/pulse/monthly

Also take into account inflated commits by CI bots: engine-flutter-autoroll, skia-flutter-autoroll, auto-submit[bot], fluttergithubbot, flutter-pub-roller-bot

Re: We're forking Flutter

#68
post #41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any statistics on how much of it is used in production?

If there would be 1M flutter devs per year and on average team had 10 devs (rather rare most mobile teams would be smaller except really big apps) and development of app would take ~1 year you would expect minimum 100k new flutter apps in app store every year. That seems highly unlikely.

I suspect there's a lot of larger apps out there which use Flutter for one feature or set of screens but the majority of the app isn't written in Flutter. You could have a team of 100 working on a app where only three of them actually touch flutter on a regular basis, but depending on how exactly you capture analytics all 100 of them may get counted.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flutter is truly a piece of great tech with remarkable quality and value. How does it compare to React Native from user and developer experience perspectives? Are there other competitors?

Faster and better in almost every respect we've looked at vs React Native or Electron. We're super happy with this choice we made quite some time ago. I'm not qualified to give an in depth review/comparison, however. Edit: we use flutter to build an app which runs on iOS, Android, macOS, Windows and Linux -- the same code base with pretty minor adaptations to desktop vs mobile and different screen sizes. The experien…

We have worked with flutter since 2019; having built internal apps for our staff, public apps for our customers, small utility apps etc- this has been our experience as well. Not only flutter has been rock solid, easy and fast to develop, it has a wide array of libraries. Long may it continue.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#70

> That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. If "only" 50 people working on a project used by one million people was unworkably low then every single successful project out there would be doomed.…

WhatsApp had less than 50 engineers (or was it employees total?) when Facebook bought them out, and they had millions of users.
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