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In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

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Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#61
This strikes a chord with me (not that I'm the only one). Every time I write longform, I intuitively want to include, "maybe", "might", "I think", but then axe them from my writing so as to not invite total dismissal.

In the abstract the authors write "Among the existing studies, there is also divergent understandings." It'd be interesting to see the methodology of this paper (doesn't seem to have access without pay) and how it differs from previous studies.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#62
post #8

> the frequency of hedging words such as “might" and "probably" has fallen by about 40% over the past 2 decades... Sounds all too right. That certainly seems to be true in the low-end brands of Nature (Nature Food, Nature Water, Nature Joule...) which read like press releases with some random math thrown in. It's really bad in results associated with "green", "nanotechnology", or batteries.

Interesting. It could be the further "down" on the foodchain your academic discipline, the more certain you might need to appear, or think you should appear -- at least this seems intuitively likely, though that is entirely guesswork and there could be many factors at play.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#63
post #2

I think this is a general cultural phenomenon not specific to the sciences- people are told they need to be aggressively confident to be taken seriously. Even as a kid parents and teachers will suggest to kids to edit words expressing uncertainty out of their writing. They are coached to talk like that when public speaking, at job interviews, and even dating. As a scientist- I also think papers and grant applications…

I think it’s a newer culture pushed by the media and universities to accept scientific claims without questioning them. They usually cite whatever they say without evidence. What a scientific consensus or even unnamed scientist say can be used to dismiss others’ points. It’s almost like they’re the clergy of today. Some are calling this “scientism.” We need to go back to treating any claims with healthy skepticism, r…

People misinterpret science as being a collection of facts discovered by authority figures rather than a process of questioning the validity of any claims made. It's almost as if the concept of science has turned into the religion of the atheist. Unquestionable, and dictated by more holy figures than them, in the form of scientists, and in some cases politicians, rather than clergy.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#64
post #15

Obligatory "havent read the journal article." But I can say that I remove words like that from my manuscripts to reduce the word count. Older articles I read seem to ramble more and have less information density? So that's another possible explanation?

That's a good point. Perhaps journal article reviewers fail to realize the importance of those words in the grand scheme.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a newer culture pushed by the media and universities to accept scientific claims without questioning them. They usually cite whatever they say without evidence. What a scientific consensus or even unnamed scientist say can be used to dismiss others’ points. It’s almost like they’re the clergy of today. Some are calling this “scientism.” We need to go back to treating any claims with healthy skepticism, r…

People misinterpret science as being a collection of facts discovered by authority figures rather than a process of questioning the validity of any claims made. It's almost as if the concept of science has turned into the religion of the atheist. Unquestionable, and dictated by more holy figures than them, in the form of scientists, and in some cases politicians, rather than clergy.

I can see how they came to see it this way, since that is how science was taught to me in public school... I only knew better because both of my parents were scientists, and I grew up helping them with their research.

I think that could be changed by changing how science is taught: give people the tools to experiment and reason, and figure out an answer on their own. I'd like to see more kids volunteering to work with real scientists, and see what the work is like firsthand.

These science-as-religion people often attack me online, and in real life when I share my own ideas... and then back down and flip almost to some creepy worship when they figure out I'm an academic PI. No reasoning or evidence can convince them of anything, but credentials instantly do.

I'd like to explain to them- as an officially ordained "science priest" with the degree and job title- that believing things based on authority rather than understanding yourself is the most heinous blasphemy possible. /s

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#66
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. At least in my western country, it has become almost expected that everyone is fully confident all the time. I’m someone who likes to deliberate on thoughts, take my time, listen to opinions and assess them, then provide my opinion (which may also change over time with more information or changing circumstances). I am humble, a listener, and don’t believe I know everything. I feel a little out of place in curr…

One of my professor at uni (he managed to talk to Bill gates to get Microsoft to fund his startup, which is now an established research center) told us that if we don't know something, being honest and saying you don't know it is usually a good sign. Be it at an oral exam, be it when you're answering question at a startup pitch (...) I really appreciated when a professor, when asked with a question he doesn't know, s…

In a way the school system teach people to fear not knowing something, because at an exam it mean getting a bad grade. At work, it is also often frown upon. This is indeed a problem in science since the goal is precisely to find more about unknowns.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#67
post #7
post #2

I think this is a general cultural phenomenon not specific to the sciences- people are told they need to be aggressively confident to be taken seriously. Even as a kid parents and teachers will suggest to kids to edit words expressing uncertainty out of their writing. They are coached to talk like that when public speaking, at job interviews, and even dating. As a scientist- I also think papers and grant applications…

> Even as a kid parents and teachers will suggest to kids to edit words expressing uncertainty out of their writing. They are coached to talk like that when public speaking, at job interviews, and even dating. That's the first time I'm hearing this and it's certainly not something I've ever observed. In this broad generally, I cannot believe that this statement is true.

It was definitely true in my high school English classes ~20 years ago that we would get red ink on our papers if we used what were termed "weasel words" like "suggests" and "believe". I have no idea how representative that was, or which direction the trend has been since then. We were also taught to use short, declarative sentences wherever possible, Hemingway being the ultimate example of the "beauty" of economy in language.

It is my understanding that this is a very USA-centric trend in writing, probably being exported along with the rest of the complex basket of American cultural quirks that come along with US-led internationalization (hegemony if you like) since WWII.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#68
post #2

I think this is a general cultural phenomenon not specific to the sciences- people are told they need to be aggressively confident to be taken seriously. Even as a kid parents and teachers will suggest to kids to edit words expressing uncertainty out of their writing. They are coached to talk like that when public speaking, at job interviews, and even dating. As a scientist- I also think papers and grant applications…

Wholeheartedly agree. This issue comes up in job interviews and forces people into faking confidence in spite of not knowing. Honest people be damned if they give the impression of anything less than absolute confidence.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#69
I did bother reading the article, and so with my 13 years of theoretical physics research well behind me, I say:

Good. Fantastic. Wunderbar. Magnifique. "Maybe", "might", and "possibly" are all words that should be banned from scientific papers in all sections except "Future Work", and even there the reviewers should be on their guard for authors trying to sneak them in.

I read way too many papers back when I was a researcher where the authors did not have the proper evidence for claims they made, and they fell back on bullshit weasel words like this. It does NOT show that you're humble or retrospective. It shows that you didn't do your job but you really want your pet theory (or more likely, theme of your next grant's research) to be true, so you're going to act like it is anyway but with a safety hatch if you get called out on it.

The real elephant in the room, that the scientific community still refuses to address except when they think they can work it into a grant, is the reproducibility crisis.

Re: In some scientific papers, words expressing uncertainty have decreased (2023)

#70
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus's message of humility was clear. The rest is your speculation, 2000 years later, about what worked.

If it's so clear and persuasive then why is it more lacking today than 2000 years ago?

What was the attitude toward humility 2000 years ago, and where? I personally have no idea.

Jesus is certainly far, far more influential than 2000 years ago. Christianity was an obscure religion and probably nobody had heard of Jesus outside the immediate region.

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