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My WordPress Slack Ban

linuxjedi.co.uk

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#61

Matt has handled this whole thing so poorly. I wanted to be on his side but everything that has come out is just not a great look. He could have had basically the entire internet on his side just by laying out the facts: "They use our product for free, generate hundreds of millions in revenue, and don't contribute back. It's just not fair. Please contribute more." Instead this tantrum has turned a bunch of people tha…

Do they use a product? WordPress’ license is GPL. However unfair it might feel they can use it under the terms of the license. Matt has chose the license and has to live with that choice. He’s doing basically the same thing Redis/Elastic Search/Mongo did but worse. He wants the money without getting the relicensing backlash. Which, I’d argue, is even worse than those other instances.

He can't relicense as WordPress is a fork of B2 which is GPL. That's one reason why he's trying to extort instead.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#62
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Matt, I sent you an email. I know you probably are getting a lot of emails right now, so I just wanted to let you know here. Whenever you get a chance, I have some additional questions about this. Thanks!

That’s…not Matt.

I know.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#63

Matt has handled this whole thing so poorly. I wanted to be on his side but everything that has come out is just not a great look. He could have had basically the entire internet on his side just by laying out the facts: "They use our product for free, generate hundreds of millions in revenue, and don't contribute back. It's just not fair. Please contribute more." Instead this tantrum has turned a bunch of people tha…

> He could have had basically the entire internet on his side just by laying out the facts: "They use our product for free, generate hundreds of millions in revenue, and don't contribute back. It's just not fair. Please contribute more."

I remember reading exactly this statement about corps generating profits on a open source thousand of times. Usually with zero effect.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#64

Expect to see this kind of drama happening regularly and frequently as the gazillion dollar commercial industry continues to subvert every ideal of the original open source ethos. Some of the best and now most commercially critical open source software started a long time ago, by people buying into RMS-like visions of the future. Turns out, we did not arrive in that future. We arrived in the one where both $xxxB comp…

We can only blame ourselves here. We knew that the companies would exploit it all along. Since before Free Software became a thing. Actually, this knowledge is the very ting that started Free Software. And we watched how Open Source came along to cozy up to businesses and bolster adoption. All this time we knew very well that no one’s going to pay for what’s available for free. And even after we’ve seen it happening…

Can someone remind me why large businesses using Free Software is a problem? If they respect the terms of the license and release their changes as Free Software, why do I, as the maintainer, care who uses it? Isn't the entire point of releasing Free Software to maximize user freedom?

The only problem that I've been able to see isn't a problem with Free Software as a concept, it's a problem with VC-funded companies that think "Open Source" is a business model that will somehow get their investors an ROI, but that's a problem with the motivations of VC-funded companies, not with Free Software.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#66
post #63

Matt has handled this whole thing so poorly. I wanted to be on his side but everything that has come out is just not a great look. He could have had basically the entire internet on his side just by laying out the facts: "They use our product for free, generate hundreds of millions in revenue, and don't contribute back. It's just not fair. Please contribute more." Instead this tantrum has turned a bunch of people tha…

> He could have had basically the entire internet on his side just by laying out the facts: "They use our product for free, generate hundreds of millions in revenue, and don't contribute back. It's just not fair. Please contribute more." I remember reading exactly this statement about corps generating profits on a open source thousand of times. Usually with zero effect.

Zero effect would have been strictly better than what we're seeing here.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#67
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to actually understand what's happening instead of simplifying the whole thing as tldr.

is this not true? Main Points of Contention Trademark and Branding Issues Mullenweg accuses WP Engine of misusing the WordPress trademark and causing confusion among users1. WP Engine has since changed some of its plan names to address these concerns1. Open Source Contributions Mullenweg criticizes WP Engine for not contributing enough to the WordPress open-source project relative to their profits5 . Core Feature Mod…

Would love to know which pages you used in the prompt for that shoddy summary job.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can only blame ourselves here. We knew that the companies would exploit it all along. Since before Free Software became a thing. Actually, this knowledge is the very ting that started Free Software. And we watched how Open Source came along to cozy up to businesses and bolster adoption. All this time we knew very well that no one’s going to pay for what’s available for free. And even after we’ve seen it happening…

Can someone remind me why large businesses using Free Software is a problem? If they respect the terms of the license and release their changes as Free Software, why do I, as the maintainer, care who uses it? Isn't the entire point of releasing Free Software to maximize user freedom? The only problem that I've been able to see isn't a problem with Free Software as a concept, it's a problem with VC-funded companies th…

You’re not wrong but only partially right.

Most FLOSS starts as a weekend project. Most end there, too. But some get big. Those big projects demand a lot of time and effort to deal with all the issues, PRs, mailing list/forum/IRC channel/whathave you moderation. So much effort that it in fact becomes another full-time job. Most people don’t know how to deal with that. They probably like what they’ve built, like all the attention, they try to be helpful. The obvious idea is to turn it somehow into a source of income so that they could continue doing what they like and what is obviously in demand.

I’m not talking about Reacts, coporate internal projects that get open-sourced. I’m talking about your Linuxes, curls, and WordPresses, for that matter. WP didn’t start as a business. The business part of it came a little later. And now that Matt saw the business is lucrative he does what any business does. And what is incompatible with FLOSS.

You’re right pointing out that the entire point of releasing Free Software is to maximize user freedom. But you also have to accept that user freedom is completely incompatible with any sort of sutainable development at scale. It can sort of work for small project that get a bug report every other week but it becomes untenable at a steady rate of half a dozen issues/PRs a day. Basically, unless every FLOSS user is a maintainer of their fork the whole thing falls apart.

And let me tell you, ain’t no one got time for that. Most people do not maintain their forks. Some just don’t want to, some don’t have time, but most just don’t have the skill. They either don’t know 120 languages to support every piece of software they use, or don’t have the domain knowledge that spans kernles, file formats, graphics subsystems, web dev, and a billion other things. There’s simply no way to support all the software without maintainers who specialize in that particular language/domain. So we lock in people in those positions, exercise peer pressure/guilt to keep them working and then turn away and say “they just don’t know how to FLOSS”.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they use a product? WordPress’ license is GPL. However unfair it might feel they can use it under the terms of the license. Matt has chose the license and has to live with that choice. He’s doing basically the same thing Redis/Elastic Search/Mongo did but worse. He wants the money without getting the relicensing backlash. Which, I’d argue, is even worse than those other instances.

He can't relicense as WordPress is a fork of B2 which is GPL. That's one reason why he's trying to extort instead.

I don’t think the fact that it’s a B2 fork is relevant. He wouldn’t be able to relicense even if it wasn’t a fork but initially chosen GPL.

Re: My WordPress Slack Ban

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this not true? Main Points of Contention Trademark and Branding Issues Mullenweg accuses WP Engine of misusing the WordPress trademark and causing confusion among users1. WP Engine has since changed some of its plan names to address these concerns1. Open Source Contributions Mullenweg criticizes WP Engine for not contributing enough to the WordPress open-source project relative to their profits5 . Core Feature Mod…

Would love to know which pages you used in the prompt for that shoddy summary job.

perplexity. https://files.catbox.moe/tqxnp8.png

i wonder if the summary is totally inaccurate or really just debated.

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