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Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

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Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#61

Post by Quizzical4230 »

thawab wrote: post #46
Quizzical4230 wrote: post #28

Anyone see the drama here: https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50

This dude has issues, the reddit post in /r/MachineLearning top comment: > Yes, basically. Delete any kyegomez link on sight. He namesquats recent papers for the clout, though the code never actually runs, much less replicates the paper results. We've had problems in /r/mlscaling with people unwittingly linking his garbage - we haven't bothered to set up an Automod rule, though. [0] https://github.com/princeton-nlp/t…

Oh!

What really bothers me is that this kyegomez person wasted time and energy of so many people and for what?

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#62

Post by Quizzical4230 »

seanhunter wrote: post #45
Quizzical4230 wrote: post #28

Anyone see the drama here: https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50

I would be pretty astonished if the complainer manages to get the trademark they think they have on "swarms" enforced. People have been using the word "swarm" in connection with simulations of various kinds for as long as I have been interested in simulations (I mean I think I first heard the word swarm in connection with a simulation in relation to something done by the santa fe institute in the 80s if memory serves…

Are they trying to advertise swarm.ai?

Bad press is still press XD

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#65

Post by islewis »

hubraumhugo wrote: post #49

Has anyone seen AI agents working in production at scale? It doesn't matter if you're using Swarm, langchain, or any other orchestration framework if the underlying issue is that AI agents too slow, too expensive, and too unreliable. I wrote about AI agent hype vs. reality[0] a while ago, and I don't think it has changed yet. [0] https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality

> The underlying issue is that AI agents too slow,

Inference speed is being rapidly optimized, especially for edge devices.

> too expensive,

The half-life of OpenAI's API pricing is a couple of months. While the bleeding edge model is always costly, the cost of API's are becoming rapidly available to the public.

> and too unreliable

Out of the 3 points raised, this is probably the most up in the air. Personally I chalk this up to sideeffects of OpenAI's rapid growth over the last few years. I think this gets solved, especially once price and latency have been figured out.

IMO, the biggest unknown here isn't a technical one, but rather a business one- I don't think it's certain that products built on multi-agent architectures will be addressing a need for end users. Most of the talk I see in this space are by people excited by building with LLM's, not by people who are asking to pay for these products.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#66

Post by d4rkp4ttern »

xrd wrote: post #52
hubraumhugo wrote: post #49

Has anyone seen AI agents working in production at scale? It doesn't matter if you're using Swarm, langchain, or any other orchestration framework if the underlying issue is that AI agents too slow, too expensive, and too unreliable. I wrote about AI agent hype vs. reality[0] a while ago, and I don't think it has changed yet. [0] https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality

I want hear more about this. I'm playing with langroid, crew.ai, and dspy and they all layer so many abstractions on top of a shifting LLM landscape. I can't believe anyone is really using them in the way their readme goals profess.

Not you in particular, but I hear this common refrain that the "LLM landscape is shifting", but what exactly is shifting? Yes new models are constantly announced, but at the end of the day, interacting with the LLMs involves making calls to an API, and the OpenAI API (and perhaps Anthropic's variant) has become fairly established, and this API will obviously not change significantly any time soon.

Given that there is (a fairly standard) API to interact with LLMs, the next question is, what abstractions and primitives help easily build applications on top of these, while giving enough flexibility for complex use cases.

The features in Langroid have evolved in response to the requirements of various use-cases that arose while building applications for clients, or companies that have requested them.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#67

Post by inglor »

hubraumhugo wrote: post #49

Has anyone seen AI agents working in production at scale? It doesn't matter if you're using Swarm, langchain, or any other orchestration framework if the underlying issue is that AI agents too slow, too expensive, and too unreliable. I wrote about AI agent hype vs. reality[0] a while ago, and I don't think it has changed yet. [0] https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality

Yes I built a lot of stuff (at batch, not to respond to user queries). Mostly large scale code generation and testing tasks.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#68

Post by thawab »

Quizzical4230 wrote: post #61
thawab wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dude has issues, the reddit post in /r/MachineLearning top comment: > Yes, basically. Delete any kyegomez link on sight. He namesquats recent papers for the clout, though the code never actually runs, much less replicates the paper results. We've had problems in /r/mlscaling with people unwittingly linking his garbage - we haven't bothered to set up an Automod rule, though. [0] https://github.com/princeton-nlp/t…

Oh! What really bothers me is that this kyegomez person wasted time and energy of so many people and for what?

followers, clicks? anyone who spends a few minutes browsing his repo will know he is a fraud. Here is an example:

https://github.com/kyegomez/AlphaFold3

most issues are people not able to run his code. These issues are closed. The repo has 700 stars.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#69

Post by llm_trw »

ValentinA23 wrote: post #40
llm_trw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use messenger pigeons if you felt like it. People really don't understand how much better LLM swarms get with more agents. I never hit a point of diminishing returns on text quality over two days of running a swarm of llama2 70Bs on an 8x4090 cluster during the stress test. You would need something similar to, but better than, whatsapp to handle the firehose of data that needs to cascade between agents when…

>People really don't understand how much better LLM swarms get with more agents. I never hit a point of diminishing returns on text quality Could you elaborate please ? One use for swarms is to use multiple agents/prompts in place of one single agent with one long prompt in order to increase performance by splitting one big task into many. It is very time consuming though, as it requires experimenting to determine ho…

>Could you elaborate please ?

No.

I've tried explaining this to supposedly smart people in both a 15 minute pitch deck and a research paper and unless they were inclined to think it from the start no amount of proof has managed to convince them.

I figure it's just not possible to convince people, even with the proof in front of them, of how powerful the system is. The same way that we still have people arguing _right now_ that all LLMs are just auto complete on steroids.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#70

Post by sunnybeetroot »

seanhunter wrote: post #45
Quizzical4230 wrote: post #28

Anyone see the drama here: https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50

I would be pretty astonished if the complainer manages to get the trademark they think they have on "swarms" enforced. People have been using the word "swarm" in connection with simulations of various kinds for as long as I have been interested in simulations (I mean I think I first heard the word swarm in connection with a simulation in relation to something done by the santa fe institute in the 80s if memory serves…

You may be interested in seeing a reply by the creator in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41819866
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