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Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

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Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#61

Post by screye »

For some context, this is the end of an era for the Tata family.

They've had an odd pseudo nepotistic passing-on-the-torch framework for 100+ years now. The Tatas adopt promising children in the extended family, instead of passing ownership by birth order. Ratan Tata's father was adopted into the extended family, and Ratan later got adopted by the main line of the family to be groomed into heir apparent. Keeping up with the tradition, Ratan never married or had his own children.

Cyrus Mistry, the head of another billionaire family, became one with the Tatas through marriage & mergers. Cyrus was groomed to be the next heir apparent. Unfortunately, he met an untimely death from a car accident in 2022.

2022 marked move away from the century long tradition of keeping it in the family. The new CEO is a self-made man with no relations to the family or the Tatas' shared religion (Parsi). Usually this merit based system would be cause for celebration, but the Tatas hold a paragon-esque reputation among well-run old-money family-owned institutions.

It'll be interesting to see if the company loses it's heart as it slowly morphs into a faceless conglomerate.

RIP to Ratan.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#62

Post by addicted »

lazide wrote: post #49
stasi9 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically most indians are Non-vegetarians( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#India ). Various estimates mostly around 20-40%. Statistically i "think" more people are killed by terrorist attack then cow vigilantes.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/07/08/eight-in-... This one says 39% are ‘pure vegetarian’, with 81% ‘limiting meat’ (aka ‘mostly vegetarian’). If just a few percentage points shy of the total non-Muslim population, notably. Which lines up with what I’m saying. And looks like 84 killed in lynchings related to cow killings in this table [ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cow_vig... ].…

No comment on the specifics of these issues, but I find the Wikipedia pages illuminating.

The “cow lynching” one has details about every incident. Whereas the “terrorist attacks” one simply has summaries.

The “cow lynching” is treated as far more important where each incident needs to be explained, but the much more numerous and impactful terrorist incidents are treated as less important.

Like Stalin said, 1 death is a tragedy, 1 million deaths is a statistic.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#63

Post by lazide »

addicted wrote: post #62
lazide wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/07/08/eight-in-... This one says 39% are ‘pure vegetarian’, with 81% ‘limiting meat’ (aka ‘mostly vegetarian’). If just a few percentage points shy of the total non-Muslim population, notably. Which lines up with what I’m saying. And looks like 84 killed in lynchings related to cow killings in this table [ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cow_vig... ].…

No comment on the specifics of these issues, but I find the Wikipedia pages illuminating. The “cow lynching” one has details about every incident. Whereas the “terrorist attacks” one simply has summaries. The “cow lynching” is treated as far more important where each incident needs to be explained, but the much more numerous and impactful terrorist incidents are treated as less important. Like Stalin said, 1 death is…

Also, in India a cow killing is both blasphemy/violence against a god figure, and an attack on an important source of renewable protein for the population.

Where terrorism is, uh. Business as usual.

I remember once when a political party in Bangalore bombed their own headquarters - but got caught doing it. Oops. Within a day or two, the scandal was out of the headlines to be replaced by yet another issue. Trash disposal problems, I think.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#64

Post by addicted »

throwaway10oct wrote: post #33

Throwaway account here, but I think we should be cautious about hero worship. While it's true that Tata has contributed positively in many areas, there are also significant controversies surrounding his legacy—like leasing coal mines for just 25 paise for 999 years before independence(1), among other issues(2) It's important to consider both the positives and negatives to form a well-rounded opinion. Let's aim to be…

> Despite repeated reminders, the company (Tata Steel) didn’t comply with the rules,” the confidential letter reads.

> And when threatened with recourse to the law, “the company started submitting the correct royalty.

IOW they continued doing what they had always been doing, and ignored a bunch of letters saying they should pay more. When the government took a more serious approach they started paying the royalty they were supposed to under the new rules.

Not a great look, but hardly beyond the norm.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#65

Post by mandeepj »

screye wrote: post #61

For some context, this is the end of an era for the Tata family. They've had an odd pseudo nepotistic passing-on-the-torch framework for 100+ years now. The Tatas adopt promising children in the extended family, instead of passing ownership by birth order. Ratan Tata's father was adopted into the extended family, and Ratan later got adopted by the main line of the family to be groomed into heir apparent. Keeping up w…

It’s notable here - Cyrus was fired from his Chairman position before his untimely death

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#66

Post by perryizgr8 »

mlnj wrote: post #56
hinkley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who does the torch pass to now that he’s gone?

He was in a chairman emeritus position for many years now. Since Tata, Cyrus Mistry and Natarajan Chandrasekaran have headed the conglomerate.

Cyrus Mistry died in a car crash a couple of years ago.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#67

Post by bravetraveler »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #52
aitchnyu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, stray dogs are a joy for many Indians. For many months the highlight of the day was going to a cafe at 10 pm in middle of work and throwing bones to the assembled dogs. On the other hand, they enter homes and kill babies, attack children and adults and carry rabies epidemics. Right thing to do is to prevent more strays from happening.

I'm laughing that this is the subthread that generates the most conversation so far on a thread about Ratan Tata's death.

See also: John Wick films, memes. Many signs we're better for animals than ourselves

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#68

Post by ankit219 »

Many Indians (esp entrepreneurs) don't realise it, Ratan Tata's conduct is the default expectation how the successful and hyped people in India are to behave (not taking a moral stand, rather a factual one) in the society. He was known to be humble and kind and never made headlines for the wrong reasons. Many would do extensive PR, while he stayed away from the limelight. It's remarkably difficult in a country where the heroes are few and get a huge coverage if they want it.

Whenever a big brand wants to enter India and (due to FDI rules) has to partner with an Indian brand, invariably they go with Tata (Starbucks, Foxconn). The image of being upstanding, clean, and good at execution is hard earned.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#69

Post by thanksgiving »

blackwateragent wrote: post #26
aitchnyu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, stray dogs are a joy for many Indians. For many months the highlight of the day was going to a cafe at 10 pm in middle of work and throwing bones to the assembled dogs. On the other hand, they enter homes and kill babies, attack children and adults and carry rabies epidemics. Right thing to do is to prevent more strays from happening.

A little ignorant here, could you explain a little more on this part. > the highlight of the day was going to a cafe at 10 pm in middle of work Is it 'normal' to have to work late to 10pm, or does it mean second job, etc.? Or was that just a typo and you meant 10am? My gut instinct is 10am, but wanted to ask directly out of curiosity if I was wrong and get a better cultural understanding.

I worked for a company with people in India and they were available through like ten am eastern time. That’s about seven thirty pm which isn’t so bad but if there was any problem my manager would not hesitate to reach out to them even at three pm eastern.

Re: Indian entrepreneur, industrialist, and philanthropist, Ratan Tata, dead at 86

#70

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

profsummergig wrote: post #23
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #8

As someone who stays far from politics, ratan tata and tata group in particular are the extraordinary entities who do opposite of enshitification. They dont cut corners (like everyone) and are highly regarded as being genuinely good. Case in point. From a tax perspective, historically reliance indistries was always known for being sneaky around taxes, dodging taxes, finding loopholes and such. Tata OTOH, they are his…

Tata could have been much, much bigger. But to the extent they could get away with it, they refused to pay bribes to politicians and government employees (they couldn't refuse to pay "any and all" bribes, for they would have been shut down completely if they took that posture).

yeah. there is a difference between "Speed money" and actual bribes for officials to look the other way when you are doing clearly not legal stuff.
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