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NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

simonwillison.net

61–70 of 511 posts

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bark can sound as good, but Google is using SoundStorm which was specifically trained on dialogs. Surprisingly Bark can even sort of match it without being trained to do so, but not reliably. ( https://x.com/jonathanfly/status/1675987073893904386 ) And SoundStorm has more than twice the context window of Bark so dialogs are a tight fit.

I just tried the default bark.cpp example from the github readme, and to me it still doesn't sound close enough to realistic, and the audio quality itself was a bit scratchy... maybe I'm doing something wrong. When I tried my own text with it, it went completely off the rails... skipping completely over random words, and also switching to different voices in the middle of a sentence. Trying to run the large model als…

You aren't doing anything wrong - Bark out the box uses a randomly generated voice and I like to think it's modeling the world of random voices which includes bad microphones/audio-quality. (Even bad 'actors' - see how many Bark voices sound like they are reading a script.)

Presumably it was trained in noisy data. But it can generate and use a clean voice, they are in there. Most of the Suno default voices are not great either - but a great voice can sound perfectly clear. I haven't done much with Bark lately but on my Twitter there's plenty of clear examples of very realistic voices. Actually here I ran a prompt based on some copy and pasted test 20 times in Bark. I put a couple better results up front, but even in later samples you can find lots of evidence of human-sounding voices. https://sndup.net/bzhz5/

Going off the rails and hallucinating is a hard problem. It can be minimized, but probably would have to solved with simple brute force (check the output with S2T and retry if needed.)

For raw audio you can replace the final decoding step with something like VOCOS or MBD if you want to maximize audio quality, though you don't need do with the best voices.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#62
post #59

My first instinct was to not see why one would want to consume such a podcast, a simile instead of either the original or an (AI?) summary of the original. Then I remembered a partially disabled friend who regularly asks for audio books, because he physically cannot read long form. This, condensed, output would make a lot of ideas accessible to him.

Ah, I see someone who doesn't commute by car

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#63
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think and hope that you're wrong. There's always been cheese, and there's a lot of it now. But there is still a market for top-notch insight. For example, Perun. This guy delivers an hourlong presentation on (mostly) the Ukraine-Russia war and its pure quality. Insights, humour, excellent delivery, from what seems to be a military-focused economist/analyst/consultant. We're a while away from some bot taking this ki…

Seriously, hardcore history? I dont even remember where I heard from him, but I think it was a Lex podcast. So I checked out hardcore history and was mightily disappointed. To my ears, he is rambling 3 hours about a topic, more or less unstructured and very long-winded, so that I basically remember nothing after having finished the podcast. I tried several times again, because I wanted it to be good. But no, not the…

Don't worry, you're not alone. I can't remember what I didn't like about it, but I really wasn't a fan.

Thankfully there's plenty out there I am a fan of!

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#64
post #39

Personally, I would love to try this for learning languages. Some people absorb information far easier when they hear it as part of a conversation. Perhaps it would be possible to use this technique to break down study materials into simple 10-minute chunks that discuss a chapter or a concept at a time.

Languages are hard. Everybody wants to learn them via an app or 10 minutes a day but realistically it's 3-4 hours a day for a year.

3-4 hours a day for a year is not even realistic, unless it's a language that already has a lot in common with yours, like Italian and Spanish.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was a great, insightful comment, but noodling over it a little more made me think it's not just content producers who are responsible for this "quality vacuousness" epidemic. I think this is just partly an inevitable consequence of going from "content scarcity" to our new normal of "content obesity" over the past 20 years or so. In this new era of an overwhelming amount of content, it's just natural to…

You'll like this: https://www.alexmurrell.co.uk/articles/the-age-of-average

You're right, I love this, thanks! I was familiar with some of these examples, e.g. Komar and Melamid's painting example (and, IIRC, unless I'm confusing with other artists, they also painted a painting filled with features that the "average" person hated, like abstract geometric shapes and stark colors, and the artists actually liked that painting and said something along the lines of "turns out we're really good at making bad art"), and the "AirBnB-style of interior design" was so excellently skewered by SNL recently, and HN has had a number of posts about how so many brands have devolved to the same monochrome, san-serif typefaces for their logos.

Still, at the same time, I couldn't help but feeling a little bit sad/resigned at the existence of the article you linked. Here I thought I had an idea that was not exactly unique but that I felt would be good to share. And yet then here is an example that expresses this idea a million times better than I ever could (I love "The Age of Average" headline), with great researched examples and tons of helpful visuals. It's hard to not feel a bit like Butters in that "Simpsons did it!" episode of South Park...

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#66

There are already tons of similar AI-generated content on YouTube. It's only a matter of time before stuff like this becomes the equivalent of the omnipresent SEO spam today.

Apparently people are already spamming podcast sites with NotebookLM: https://x.com/ListenNotes/status/1840470094708899992

>do you have tools to detect if audio is generated by notebooklm?

>we’re seeing a rise in fake, single-episode podcasts submitted to http://listennotes.com using it.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#67
post #60
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do this. A friend did this to me, and after listening to it, I suddenly realized it was AI vomit. My friend wasted an hour of my attention, and I didn't appreciate it.

If it was vomit, why did you spend an hour on it? People complain about 2 minutes of audio sometimes, I cannot imagine a full hour of an unknown podcast, it must have been quite interesting.

Because they assumed that there was a good reason that their friend sent it!?

I had a friend who did the same to me, I was sent a message asking my opinion on a tech topic. I spent 30min researching/reading to make sure my reply was accurate and then found out the question was generated by a LLM, and he just wanted to show off how good a LLM was.

It will color every interaction you have with that person...

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#68

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I ran one of my papers into it, mind blown how well they dumbed it down without losing too much details (still quite a lot was ommitted). I wonder if it's domain specific, and I wonder what's the variance by topic.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#69
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think and hope that you're wrong. There's always been cheese, and there's a lot of it now. But there is still a market for top-notch insight. For example, Perun. This guy delivers an hourlong presentation on (mostly) the Ukraine-Russia war and its pure quality. Insights, humour, excellent delivery, from what seems to be a military-focused economist/analyst/consultant. We're a while away from some bot taking this ki…

Seriously, hardcore history? I dont even remember where I heard from him, but I think it was a Lex podcast. So I checked out hardcore history and was mightily disappointed. To my ears, he is rambling 3 hours about a topic, more or less unstructured and very long-winded, so that I basically remember nothing after having finished the podcast. I tried several times again, because I wanted it to be good. But no, not the…

Yea there are much better examples of quality history podcasts, that are non-rambling. E.g. Mike Duncan podcasts (Revolutions, History of Rome), or the Age of Napoleon podcast. But even those are really just very good digestions of various source materials, which seems like something where LLMs will eventually reach quite a good level.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#70

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I think it is right that people don't care and there is some merit to it.

Reading, or listening to podcast, these days is more akin to a meditation - many people do it to reenforce an identity rather than to expand on themselves.

And I do think that is reasonable as, for many people, there are few other structures that can keep them in check with themselves.

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