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What the heck is going on with WordPress?

paolo.blog

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Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#61

Post by chuckadams »

tzs wrote: post #45
nl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But access to the autoupdates infrastructure isn't part of that deal. If wp-engine want to change customers for access to that it's not unreasonable to expect a contribution.

Suppose I want to have a Wordpress site, and am considering the following options. 1. I create an Amazon Lightsail server set up using the Wordpress image as described here [1]. 2. I get a virtual server somewhere, install Debian, do "apt install wordpress curl apache2 mariadb-server", and configure things as described here [2]. 3. I get a shared hosting account at some place that includes cPanel or something similar…

They're all going to hit wordpress.org for plugins and themes. I would definitely stay away from Debian's packages, which are outdated the moment they're installed, and the setup looks painfully fiddly and manual anyway.

An alternative to wp.org's infrastructure would be the likes of https://roots.io/bedrock, which uses composer to install and update plugins and themes along with wordpress itself. The infrastructure it uses is called WordPress Packagist, which is run by outlandish.com using github as the distribution infrastructure. The whole thing is open source, so you could run your own wpackagist service if you like.

Using bedrock in a container, I upgrade the site by building and uploading a new container image. Anything goes wrong, I roll back to the previous image. Cattle, not pets.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#62

Post by hackerbeat »

dangrossman wrote: post #60
hackerbeat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. It goes much deeper than that. WordPress is no little app some dude maintains in his free time. It's a massive powerhouse that powers 40%+ of the whole web. WP Engine can't just leech on it while adding zero value.

Why can 40%+ of the web leech on it while adding zero value except the <1% hosted by WPE?

Cause they're not raking in hundreds of millions of dollars every year, as WPE does, without giving back or adding any value whatsoever.

Here are some big and popular hosts that actually do give back. https://wordpress.org/hosting/

In the future, please inform yourself more before siding with the bad guys.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#63

Post by dangrossman »

hackerbeat wrote: post #62
dangrossman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can 40%+ of the web leech on it while adding zero value except the <1% hosted by WPE?

Cause they're not raking in hundreds of millions of dollars every year, as WPE does, without giving back or adding any value whatsoever. Here are some big and popular hosts that actually do give back. https://wordpress.org/hosting/ In the future, please inform yourself more before siding with the bad guys.

There are approximately 330,000 web hosting companies not listed there, including a very long list that are larger than WPE, generate an order of magnitude more revenue than WPE, and host more WP installs than WPE.

WP Engine has contributed full-time developer hours to the core WordPress code base for over 10 years, is a current Five for the Future contributing member, sponsors WordCamp events globally, produces the DE{CODE} series of conferences for WordPress developers, and maintains some of WordPress's most essential and popular plugins.

To say "without giving back or adding any value whatsoever" is libel. It's defamatory and deeply untrue. You're committing one of several crimes Matt committed to start all this drama. Maybe you'll get to meet the "good guys" in person when you respond to the lawsuits in the same court system.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#64

Post by hackerbeat »

dangrossman wrote: post #63
hackerbeat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause they're not raking in hundreds of millions of dollars every year, as WPE does, without giving back or adding any value whatsoever. Here are some big and popular hosts that actually do give back. https://wordpress.org/hosting/ In the future, please inform yourself more before siding with the bad guys.

There are approximately 330,000 web hosting companies not listed there, including a very long list that are larger than WPE, generate an order of magnitude more revenue than WPE, and host more WP installs than WPE. WP Engine has contributed full-time developer hours to the core WordPress code base for over 10 years, is a current Five for the Future contributing member, sponsors WordCamp events globally, produces the…

[flagged]

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#65

Post by dangrossman »

hackerbeat wrote: post #64
dangrossman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are approximately 330,000 web hosting companies not listed there, including a very long list that are larger than WPE, generate an order of magnitude more revenue than WPE, and host more WP installs than WPE. WP Engine has contributed full-time developer hours to the core WordPress code base for over 10 years, is a current Five for the Future contributing member, sponsors WordCamp events globally, produces the…

[flagged]

If Matt tells you what I just told you, will you believe Matt? Here it is on his website, wordpress.org:

https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/pledge/wp-engine/

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#66

Post by hackerbeat »

dangrossman wrote: post #65
hackerbeat wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If Matt tells you what I just told you, will you believe Matt? Here it is on his website, wordpress.org: https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/pledge/wp-engine/

This is just marketing speak and wasn't written by Matt.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"WP Engine sponsors 11 contributors for a total of 40 hours per week across 5 teams."

Doesn't sound like a lot given the money they make. Biblical ROI.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#67

Post by chuckadams »

hackerbeat wrote: post #64
dangrossman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are approximately 330,000 web hosting companies not listed there, including a very long list that are larger than WPE, generate an order of magnitude more revenue than WPE, and host more WP installs than WPE. WP Engine has contributed full-time developer hours to the core WordPress code base for over 10 years, is a current Five for the Future contributing member, sponsors WordCamp events globally, produces the…

[flagged]

> PS: They also swapped WP's Stripe ID for the WooCommerce plugin for their own.

I assume you can supply actual proof for this, right? Let's see if you have better luck than the last guy who went looking, because he came up with bupkis.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#68

Post by [deleted] »

hackerbeat wrote: post #66
dangrossman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Matt tells you what I just told you, will you believe Matt? Here it is on his website, wordpress.org: https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/pledge/wp-engine/

This is just marketing speak and wasn't written by Matt. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "WP Engine sponsors 11 contributors for a total of 40 hours per week across 5 teams." Doesn't sound like a lot given the money they make. Biblical ROI.

[deleted]

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#69

Post by [deleted] »

hackerbeat wrote: post #66
dangrossman wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Matt tells you what I just told you, will you believe Matt? Here it is on his website, wordpress.org: https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/pledge/wp-engine/

This is just marketing speak and wasn't written by Matt. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "WP Engine sponsors 11 contributors for a total of 40 hours per week across 5 teams." Doesn't sound like a lot given the money they make. Biblical ROI.

[deleted]

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#70

Post by exsomet »

I’m an observer with no horse in this race, but from my armchair I think this argument in a vacuum sits very weird with me.

It’s strange that you can, in the first section, decry the situation of a company opting out of something that is optional on the basis of it being part of an unspoken social contract, and then later in the same article defend your own side’s decision to opt out of their part of an unspoken social contract because it is optional.

I also can’t help but keep going back to - if the founders view is that enterprise users, hosting companies, every business who’s name starts with R, or some other selection of users needs to contribute some resources to the project, why doesn’t the license say that? The argument being made takes for granted that the social contract here is common sense, but that’s not true. This is exactly why licenses exist - to clearly define these lines and avoid ambiguity.

If it’s not in the license, the presumption (legal _and_ ethical) is that it’s intended to be optional. If a company is trying to compel behavior, does that line up with it being optional?

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