Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Being Raised by the Internet

jimmyhmiller.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 331 posts

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#61

Post by throwanem »

tbrownaw wrote: post #57
throwanem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't even unreasonable as a cultural norm, although it is that those who most firmly enforce it also cherish silly habits like saying "bring your whole self to work." The expectation of not oversharing needs to be met by a commitment of not over- asking, but I suppose that's really too much to expect in an age so degraded that all the obligations across lines of social class are understood to run in only one di…

> The expectation of not oversharing needs to be met by a commitment of not over-asking, Nosy people are a fact of life, and their existence shouldn't invalidate norms against over-sharing in inappropriate contexts.

I haven't sought to argue either should override the other, but indeed exactly that both should exist in more balance than has lately been evident.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#62

Post by kragen »

> I am certain they never intended to inspire a 12 year-old kid to find a better life.

i can't speak for everyone, but as one of the people writing tutorials and faqs and helping people learn to do things with free software during the period miller is talking about, that is absolutely what i intended to do. and, from the number of people i knew who were excited to work on olpc, conectar igualdad, and huayra linux, i think it was actually a pretty common motivation

as a kid on bbses, fidonet, and the internet, i benefited to an unimaginable degree from other people's generosity in sharing their learning and their inventions (which is what software is). how could i not want to do the same?

underwritten by the nsf, the internet was a gift economy, like burning man: people giving away things of value to all comers because if you don't do that maybe it's because you can't. the good parts of it still are

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#63

Post by pityJuke »

I’m glad this author had an endearing experience.

I can’t say that I did. I’d blame “being raised on the internet” as a consistent contributor to a lot of negatives in my life. Certainly, I picked up a lot of the rage from people in the IRC circles I ran with, and like a parrot exhibited it in my personal life. Beyond that, the general degradation of IRL social skills.

I can say my life took a significant upturn once I extricated myself from that community.

I’d say the thing is that the internet is filled with a lot of negative places, filled with people who literally can’t operate IRL. If as a kid you’re sucked into them, it can be detrimental.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#64

Post by throwanem »

tbrownaw wrote: post #53
throwanem wrote: post #13

The author seems about a decade younger than me and "raised" isn't the word I would use for myself, but I doubt I would have made it if not for the friends I made and the things I learned that way. The thing about pulling yourself up out of a bad situation is that you learn to be usually very deliberate in how you talk about it and what you talk about. People who've never really known anything but stability in their…

People with different life experiences should just be quietly written off due to the faulty assumptions they might make out of ignorance. > If you feel you've noticed an odd ellipticality in accounts like these, the vague sense of something going unsaid, it's this. If that's all you've noticed, better not to pry. In what context? Work acquaintances chatting over coffee at the office? Parasocial public discussions on…

You give the impression here of having taken something I said quite personally. I hope I may be forgiven for not yet really understanding what or why. Likewise, my responses may be somewhat less on point for the distraction.

The account under discussion is attributed public speech on the Internet. In other contexts, other conventions apply. There are about as many such contexts as there are kinds of relationships between humans. That's about as general as I can really make it.

If you're asking for a recommendation, it would be twofold. First, if a question seems like it might be taken as nosy, try to find a way to reframe it, or don't ask it at all. Second, when someone seems to persistently misunderstand something you're saying or asking in a more personal than professional context, consider that they may be intentionally deflecting a question or subject which they consider inappropriate to address in that setting.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#65

Post by throwanem »

tightbookkeeper wrote: post #60
throwanem wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would instead say, as many have, that the entire wonder of the young Internet was that it couldn't be tied to just one demographic.

I just don’t think that’s true. The sampling of early internet users and writers is not the general population.

Nor did I say that it was. You've assumed an equation between "not just one demographic" and "the general population" where none exists.

There are histories in my bookshelf downstairs that I can recommend here. If I don't happen by before the edit window closes on this comment, I'll mention some titles in a reply.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#66

Post by throwanem »

Etheryte wrote: post #58
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep your identity small. https://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html (Not saying I agree or disagree with the essay but it seemed topical)

I think the central takeaway of this essay is dead wrong, you should aim for the exact opposite. The fewer labels or identities you have yourself, the more strongly you hold on to them and the more fragile your personality. If the only thing you identify yourself by is your job and that gets taken away from you in a downturn, never to return, what's left? A lot of people who are in that situation and don't have other…

In this connection it seems fit to note that "I am someone who found ways to overcome the problems that I faced" is also a statement of identity.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#67

Post by tbrownaw »

Etheryte wrote: post #58
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep your identity small. https://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html (Not saying I agree or disagree with the essay but it seemed topical)

I think the central takeaway of this essay is dead wrong, you should aim for the exact opposite. The fewer labels or identities you have yourself, the more strongly you hold on to them and the more fragile your personality. If the only thing you identify yourself by is your job and that gets taken away from you in a downturn, never to return, what's left? A lot of people who are in that situation and don't have other…

If your self-image includes the structure of the world around you, or the behavior of people other than yourself, you'll run into problems.

I enjoy working with computers. I happen to work at a particular company doing computer things. Only one of those is an innate "what makes me, me" thing. Even if computers didn't exist, I'd still probably tend to gravitate towards things that are fun for the same sorts of reasons.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#68

Post by tightbookkeeper »

throwanem wrote: post #65
tightbookkeeper wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t think that’s true. The sampling of early internet users and writers is not the general population.

Nor did I say that it was. You've assumed an equation between "not just one demographic" and "the general population" where none exists. There are histories in my bookshelf downstairs that I can recommend here. If I don't happen by before the edit window closes on this comment, I'll mention some titles in a reply.

And with this black and white thinking you won’t find any trends or patterns anywhere in real life.

To rephrase the question, who was influential on the internet? What biases and ideals were on the internet due to those selection effects.

For example, the internet was very secular and perhaps nihilistic. Where does that come from.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#69

Post by tbrownaw »

HPsquared wrote: post #32

We are going to see a lot of children (and adults) raised by chatbots. Asking them for advice, confiding in them where real people don't seem safe, etc. Through the looking glass! Still, definitely better than asking Reddit for relationship advice

What if I told you those chatbots are trained on Reddit?

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#70

Post by throwanem »

tightbookkeeper wrote: post #68
throwanem wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor did I say that it was. You've assumed an equation between "not just one demographic" and "the general population" where none exists. There are histories in my bookshelf downstairs that I can recommend here. If I don't happen by before the edit window closes on this comment, I'll mention some titles in a reply.

And with this black and white thinking you won’t find any trends or patterns anywhere in real life. To rephrase the question, who was influential on the internet? What biases and ideals were on the internet due to those selection effects. For example, the internet was very secular and perhaps nihilistic. Where does that come from.

It is a remarkable reading of my comment, in which I identify where black-and-white thinking has led your analysis into error, that can mistake that criticism for the error it describes.

It really isn't a simple question you're asking, is the problem. If I thought it needed less than a book to answer, why would I be about to recommend books?

Post reply on HN