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Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

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Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#61

Post by mmaunder »

aes256 wrote: post #44
mibbitier wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law Then he should be tried in the UK.

> Then he should be tried in the UK. As it stands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK have shown no interest in prosecuting O'Dwyer, but US authorities have. Perhaps O'Dwyer should be begging the CPS to prosecute him...

That's actually an interesting suggestion. It would force the UK to take a position on the issue and if he's found not guilty, it would be very clear the UK and USA are at odds on the matter.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#62

Post by planetguy »

I think that those agitating for meaningful copyright reform and against silly copyright infringement cases aren't doing themselves a favour when they start agitating in favour of the actual, honest-to-god, in-it-for-the-money large-scale pirates who make hundreds of thousands of pounds off infringing on other peoples' copyright. This guy is scum.

Also, how is this guy a "hacker"?

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#63

Post by mindslight »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #4

This is shocking and as a UK citizen angers me greatly, however I have to say this guy doesn't seem too smart. Firstly, building a website (presumably with the domain registered under his name) like this in the current legal climate is basically asking for trouble. Especially hosting it in Sweden (where the TBP was). Secondly , in the interview he asked the Police if he should get a solicitor, and decided not to get…

In a perfect world, people starting communities like this would be smarter about it and use better software that conceals their identity and provides no central server to shut down. But unfortunately the Internet gained prime-time popularity with barely-adequate centralized object naming and transport technology (dns/http). So there are masses of people who understand its promise, but don't scrutinize the popular implementation nor take technical precautions to shield themselves - they instead blunder in while concocting legal theories as to why they're safe (as they fail to realize that laws are less like code and more like advertising).

This particular kid may have been dumb (and immature given his flaunting), but to focus on his failings is ignore the greater phenomenon that he's merely fodder to. I certainly don't think he deserves to be put into the meat grinder, but if he had been a bit smarter and avoided it, we'd merely be talking about a different stupid kid.

The really unfortunate thing is that these halfway-there worse-is-better technologies like napster/torrent/bitcoin only serve to immunize the existing power structures by alerting them to the phenomenon of revolutionary communication technologies and giving the state incremental practice at blocking protocols.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#64

Post by gouranga »

mryan wrote: post #56
gouranga wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are unlikely to be trialled with jury. It'll be sealed or with a magistrate. There's nothing to back it up unfortunately other than a number of horror stories over the years of people getting shafted. The law is extremely biased towards those with money unless its a high profile case. Duty solicitors are private solicitors but from direct experience, they aren't always neutral. Its bad when you find your duty sol…

Getting off-topic here, but would you mind sharing what happened in your case, when the court was shown the picture of the officer/solicitor as drinking buddies?

The magistrate said that the CPS and police had made a mockery of the legal system and that he was striking the case off. CPS solicitor was reprimanded verbally. I was awarded costs of 300 pounds. Lasted about 5 mins after that.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#65

Post by icebraining »

spitx wrote: post #54
icebraining wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These accusations in the form of hypothesis are disgusting. Do you have any evidence to believe Wales decided to help based on the guy's "social grace"?

I never meant to assail his intentions in this case. However you can't refute the PR implications of what kind of candidate he throws his support behind. As much as personalities like JW want to be associated with Net Neutrality initiatives and the like, they still have their apprehensions when it comes to associating themselves with the geek / hacker types. Take this guy (picked totally at random from a YT search fo…

I never meant to assail his intentions in this case.

Then what did you meant to do by posting that?

As much as personalities like JW want to be associated with Net Neutrality initiatives and the like, they still have their apprehensions when it comes to associating themselves with the geek / hacker types.

And on what do you base that assertion?

I am not entirely convinced if JW would have come out in his support if he were the culprit (keeping every other detail of the case untouched). Yes, I am suggesting that JW threw his weight in - atleast in some measure - due the seemingly well-adjusted looks of Richard O'Dwyer.

I do not know Wales and I certainly cannot say whether he would or he wouldn't. But I do not see the purpose in posting such speculative "suggestions" except for smearing him.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#66

Post by davidw »

henrikeh wrote: post #55
chrischen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't following your reasoning on this. Is your point that copyright laws have been instated unethically? No. My point is that copyright infringement is only wrong in the eyes of the law, and not wrong inherently. Since copyright infringement isn't inherently wrong, the law can be redefined to adjust to changing realities. > Seriously? So, if people choose to consume someone's work, yet avoid paying for it, then…

I think I see your point better now. > It would be illogical, perhaps unethical even, for me to want more of that content while not supporting it in any way. So what do you suggest instead? Instead of paying upfront, should the content production instead by shifted towards pay-as-you-like services? Micro-donations? How would you make sure people paid for the content? A lot of people don't have the moral standard toda…

I think he's suggesting simply foregoing anything that relies on "intellectual property", like movies, TV, books, studio music, software not as a service, and so on.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#67

Post by spitx »

icebraining wrote: post #65
spitx wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never meant to assail his intentions in this case. However you can't refute the PR implications of what kind of candidate he throws his support behind. As much as personalities like JW want to be associated with Net Neutrality initiatives and the like, they still have their apprehensions when it comes to associating themselves with the geek / hacker types. Take this guy (picked totally at random from a YT search fo…

I never meant to assail his intentions in this case. Then what did you meant to do by posting that? As much as personalities like JW want to be associated with Net Neutrality initiatives and the like, they still have their apprehensions when it comes to associating themselves with the geek / hacker types. And on what do you base that assertion? I am not entirely convinced if JW would have come out in his support if h…

It's not a smear campaign. It's the unspoken truth.

Unkempt and maladjusted hacker types are still social pariahs. People on HN whine about the necessary evils of hustling but fail to tie into issues like the one at hand the contiguous issues of essential fairness and even-handedness. Or else the Morins, Cashmores, Roses and the Systroms of this world will continue to rake it in while the grungy hacker genius will rot in seclusion.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#69

Post by jahewson »

nicholassmith wrote: post #14

Whether or not what he did was a criminal or civil crime, he's not a US citizen, he didn't commit the crime within US boundaries (unless I've missed a memo), so he should not stand trial in a country that has nothing to do with the situation . The very idea that you can effectively be transported to a country that you have nothing to do with and committed no crime in just purely because the big boys with the big wall…

You missed the memo, but it still sucks. Juristiction depends on which country the "harm" occurred. For example, if I fire a rocket at another country, then I've certainly committed a crime within its boundaries, despite never having set foot there.

His website was accessible in the US by design (one could forbid US visitors in the ToS, and by geoip), and the "harm" from his supposed crime occurred, for those US users, in the US, not inside his server.

What sucks about this case is that it seems incredibly unlikely that linking constitutes a felony copyright infringement, because no copyrighted material is ever directly encountered. It seems much more likely that only a misdemeanor infringement occurred (if any), for which the UK does not extradite to the US.

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