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Nginx has moved to GitHub

mailman.nginx.org

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Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#61

Post by eesmith »

jen20 wrote: post #33
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a power-play to make people create accounts and stay logged in so they can track you better Github doesn't even serve ads. What exactly are you worried about? Your throwaway email being primary key #78,000,000 and having your visited repositories stored in another table?

Microsoft serves ads though. I haven't looked through the terms and conditions, but I'd be amazed if it wasn't permitted for GitHub to give whatever they can glean from your data to their corporate overlord.

Yes, they send personal data to Microsoft for advertising purposes. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/privacy-policies/gith...

> Affiliates: Personal Data may be shared with GitHub affiliates, including Microsoft, to facilitate customer service, marketing and advertising, order fulfillment, billing, technical support, and legal and compliance obligations. Our affiliates may only use the Personal Data in a manner consistent with this Privacy Statement.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#62

Post by amiga386 »

arp242 wrote: post #59
amiga386 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They claimed the new search requires logins due to performance reasons... they have no reason, other than they want to use both the carrot and the stick in driving signups and logins, to take away their existing search, the one they didn't have a problem offering for 16 years, completely.

So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it. You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg they're bad".

I didn't say they were lying. It can be true that their new search is better but costlier to run. They can focus on that in their PR, along with how shiny and new the shiny new search is, to distract you that they are removing anonymous search and making the site worse.

Nobody made them turn off the old search, they chose that, and they bundled the two together in one PR push.

Fancy new search = carrot. Remove anonymous search = stick. Carrot and stick work together to drive more signups, more logins, more data tracked, more data sales, more money.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#63

Post by plorkyeran »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #30
eblume wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth mentioning here I think that github's code search is really quite good. I'm not trying to say that github can do no harm or that github "owning" OSS code hosting is a good thing, but the github search bar is a utility that IMO is worth the price of admission. I think that sourcegraph maintains a similar quality OSS code search that can be searched for free but I have not personally used it.

The problem is that GH makes it the login process as painful as possible. Login tokens expire frequently, necessitating new logins. Logins require 2fa every time, which makes them extremely flow-breaking. Post-login you're not returned to the file you were on, so now you need to navigate back to search. Logins are per domain and per device, so I end up dealing with this 4x per day if I'm using GitHub heavily. It's un…

This is not at all my experience with Github? I go through the 2fa flow maybe once a year, if that. I have to go through the SSO flow for my employer's private repositories once a day (which is my employer's policy, not Github's), but that properly redirects to the page I was trying to access.

Does your employer have a SSO flow that requires 2fa every time and doesn't redirect properly afterwards? That would be pretty annoying, but it's not Github's fault.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#66

Post by AlotOfReading »

plorkyeran wrote: post #63
AlotOfReading wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that GH makes it the login process as painful as possible. Login tokens expire frequently, necessitating new logins. Logins require 2fa every time, which makes them extremely flow-breaking. Post-login you're not returned to the file you were on, so now you need to navigate back to search. Logins are per domain and per device, so I end up dealing with this 4x per day if I'm using GitHub heavily. It's un…

This is not at all my experience with Github? I go through the 2fa flow maybe once a year, if that. I have to go through the SSO flow for my employer's private repositories once a day (which is my employer's policy, not Github's), but that properly redirects to the page I was trying to access. Does your employer have a SSO flow that requires 2fa every time and doesn't redirect properly afterwards? That would be prett…

Happens even with my personal GitHub account across multiple browsers/operating systems.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#67

Post by pcl »

amiga386 wrote: post #62
arp242 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So those people are outright lying through their teeth? Got it. You're just reasoning from negativity and cynicism. No evidence for anything. Other than "zomg they're bad".

I didn't say they were lying. It can be true that their new search is better but costlier to run. They can focus on that in their PR, along with how shiny and new the shiny new search is, to distract you that they are removing anonymous search and making the site worse. Nobody made them turn off the old search, they chose that, and they bundled the two together in one PR push. Fancy new search = carrot. Remove anonym…

I completely understand where they're coming from.

Maintaining two separate search stacks for different user groups sounds like a nightmare. Multiply that by every feature that increases in complexity enough to bubble up on the cost-center metrics, and it for sure makes sense to prune complexity at the cost of secondary-feature functionality for anonymous requests.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#68

Post by Alupis »

amiga386 wrote: post #52
HellzStormer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don't think this is a valid case of enshittifying. Products that you pay for that loses features or break or become more painful to use are enshittifying. A free feature that stays free but requires you to make a free account (no credit card needed), I can see at least one very valid reason: if the feature heavier than a simple page (which is the case here), then it's an open door for DDOS attacks. Bein…

> The alternative is having to do captchas and the like to use those features anonymously This is not the case. You may have noticed that Google Search, Bing, etc. don't require login or captcha to do a search. Billions of people use this search daily. And yet, they will throw a captcha at you, or even just say "you're a bot, stop bothering us" whether you're logged in or not , if their signals have detected what the…

> They already make enough money to run the service despite all the anonymous usage, but they'd like more money, you see.

How mighty of you, a freeloading user in this specific situation, to assert Github has made "enough" money and therefore should offer you services at their own expense... you know, because you want it and therefore are entitled to it.

> Github managed to offer anonymous search for 16 years before one day Microsoft took it away. Do you think it was due to DDOS attacks, or do you think it was a power-play to attract more sign-ups and logins?

So what's the issue here, really? Make a free account and move on with life. Or clone the repo and search it locally if you need to. Or decide to take some principled stance and refuse to work with projects hosted on Github. It's your choice.

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#69

Post by Alupis »

pcl wrote: post #67
amiga386 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they were lying. It can be true that their new search is better but costlier to run. They can focus on that in their PR, along with how shiny and new the shiny new search is, to distract you that they are removing anonymous search and making the site worse. Nobody made them turn off the old search, they chose that, and they bundled the two together in one PR push. Fancy new search = carrot. Remove anonym…

I completely understand where they're coming from. Maintaining two separate search stacks for different user groups sounds like a nightmare. Multiply that by every feature that increases in complexity enough to bubble up on the cost-center metrics, and it for sure makes sense to prune complexity at the cost of secondary-feature functionality for anonymous requests.

Besides all of that - Github has zero obligation to provide Free services to users, let alone non-users.

The person you are responding to doesn't even want to make a free account yet expects to be able to use all of Github's services for free. That's some wild entitlement.

The disconnect here is unreal...

Re: Nginx has moved to GitHub

#70

Post by Alupis »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #66
plorkyeran wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not at all my experience with Github? I go through the 2fa flow maybe once a year, if that. I have to go through the SSO flow for my employer's private repositories once a day (which is my employer's policy, not Github's), but that properly redirects to the page I was trying to access. Does your employer have a SSO flow that requires 2fa every time and doesn't redirect properly afterwards? That would be prett…

Happens even with my personal GitHub account across multiple browsers/operating systems.

Counter-anecdote. I cannot even remember the last time I was asked to log into Github, at the office, at home, on my laptop, and even on my phone.

Do you perhaps have a browser setting that nukes cookies/session data by any chance? Or perhaps use a VPN that might be tripping some sort of account protection mechanism?

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