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What to do about America's killer cars

economist.com

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Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#61

Post by cameldrv »

hedora wrote: post #54
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

I think the bigger problem is that cars keep getting taller for no reason. Other than the cybertruck, larger vehicles have been trending more and more towards adding pedestrian safety features. However, the same vehicles are taller than they used to be, making them less safe, and generally worse. Who wants to lift crap an extra foot into their pickup truck bed, and need a frigging step to get into the side door? The…

It's a combination of getting taller, the hood getting longer, and the hood not sloping down. The Ridgeline has much more of a sloping hood, and the visibility is better. Most trucks have the flatter hood and big flat grille presumably because it looks more aggressive. I don't understand why the hoods are getting so long though. Just as an example I've noticed, the Tacoma has about a foot between the bumper and the radiator that's completely dead space. The truck would be more useful if it were a foot shorter (easier to park), a foot more legroom, or a foot longer bed, so I don't know what the reason is. Maybe a crumple zone or something.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#62

Post by cameldrv »

toast0 wrote: post #42
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

I've got a small pick-up truck, and it's great for me, but nobody makes a good small pick-up for the US market anymore, because of how CAFE standards work. Currently available small trucks aren't very small and aren't very truck. To get a 6 foot bed, you need to buy a big truck, and a 6 foot bed is IMHO an essential quality of a truck.

The CAFE standards have definitely caused problems. There is the Ford Maverick and the Hyundai Santa Fe now though that are more like what a Ranger or an S10 or a Tacoma used to be 20 years ago, except they're unibody.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#63

Post by _yb2s »

buildsjets wrote: post #50
_yb2s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty absurd… there are plenty of non commercial reasons to use a truck- towing trailers, hauling wood, etc. they’re pretty essential for people that live in the country, do subsistence farming, or build/maintain their own house. I grew up in the country in a house my dad built, and we got much of our food from plants and animals we raised- we needed a truck. Ultimately all motor vehicles are pretty dangerou…

Pickup trucks are a lot higher, wider, and longer, yet have with smaller windows and windshields and less room in the beds than when I was a kid. And FYI I still own a square body 1988 3/4 ton 4X4 Suburban in the 1973-1991 body style so I know the difference between an old truck and a new one. It’s a really horrible shade of beige and my neighbors probably hate it. These changes have generally has made new pickups de…

A beige 1982 diesel Suburban was actually what we had when I was a kid…

You can still get traditional 2 door trucks with a long bed… but I agree that isn’t what people using trucks inappropriately as cars are buying.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#64

Post by defrost »

renewiltord wrote: post #8
misun78 wrote: post #3

Let me be the first one to say it - anyone who drives a large pick-up truck for non-commercial reasons is a grade A asshole. SUV drivers aren't that far off, though I sympathize with the game theory element of buying SUVs to protect against other larger cars -- but I would expect you to take accountability and drive slower and safer than smaller cars. These monstrosities are environmentally unfriendly, pedestrian unf…

Someone on Hacker News pointed out that "right of way doesn't mean you won't die" and "Yield to Gross Tonnage" and I was convinced to trade out my smaller car for a large one. I told my friends about it and we're all buying bigger SUVs. We didn't grow up in America and didn't realize that the culture was an explicit arms race. But now we are appropriately armored! Glad for HN advice. A friend is going to get a Hummer…

Yield to Gross Tonnage is very much an actual enforced regulation in this part of the world, sadly a little weiner vehicle like a Hummer won't save you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TskUzmg6Sk

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#65

Post by renewiltord »

defrost wrote: post #64
renewiltord wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on Hacker News pointed out that "right of way doesn't mean you won't die" and "Yield to Gross Tonnage" and I was convinced to trade out my smaller car for a large one. I told my friends about it and we're all buying bigger SUVs. We didn't grow up in America and didn't realize that the culture was an explicit arms race. But now we are appropriately armored! Glad for HN advice. A friend is going to get a Hummer…

Yield to Gross Tonnage is very much an actual enforced regulation in this part of the world, sadly a little weiner vehicle like a Hummer won't save you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TskUzmg6Sk

Haha, no need to repeat yourself https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38945230

I'll definitely yield to my neighbourhood Komatsu 900-series. I already have to yield to the Hummer since I don't have one.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#66

Post by toast0 »

cameldrv wrote: post #62
toast0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a small pick-up truck, and it's great for me, but nobody makes a good small pick-up for the US market anymore, because of how CAFE standards work. Currently available small trucks aren't very small and aren't very truck. To get a 6 foot bed, you need to buy a big truck, and a 6 foot bed is IMHO an essential quality of a truck.

The CAFE standards have definitely caused problems. There is the Ford Maverick and the Hyundai Santa Fe now though that are more like what a Ranger or an S10 or a Tacoma used to be 20 years ago, except they're unibody.

I don't mind the unibody, but the very short bed length doesn't work for me.

I think you meant Hyundai Santa Cruz?

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#68

Post by paulmd »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #55
Gimpei wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a large family, it’s hard to get by without an SUV. Four kids and all their car seats do not fit into a regular sized car. While it would be great if we could all just get my on public transportation and shank’s pony like in Europe, the ship left the port a hundred years ago on that one. Like it or not the majority of US cities are designed for the car.

Didn't a minivan or a station wagon used to fill this role?

Both of those are SUV-class vehicles and a minivan is pretty much the quintessential SUV. Other than styling there really isn’t a difference between a traverse and a windstar or whatever.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#69

Post by paulmd »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #56
_yb2s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty absurd… there are plenty of non commercial reasons to use a truck- towing trailers, hauling wood, etc. they’re pretty essential for people that live in the country, do subsistence farming, or build/maintain their own house. I grew up in the country in a house my dad built, and we got much of our food from plants and animals we raised- we needed a truck. Ultimately all motor vehicles are pretty dangerou…

In the Japanese countryside I see people use kei trucks for these tasks. They're tiny but they can haul a lot of stuff.

Well, those are flat-out illegal here and importing them is made illegal except under a narrow set of circumstances so that the auto industry doesn’t have to compete.

Re: What to do about America's killer cars

#70

Post by paulmd »

rootusrootus wrote: post #33
misun78 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't explained why but I can preemptively say it isn't. Go outside the confines of American suburbia/countryside and you will see how out of touch these vehicles are to sustainable and healthy living.

Sure, but that applies just as well to driving any car, eating any meat, etc. Very little of modern human living is particularly sustainable or healthy.

“if you don’t like trucks having 8-foot-tall grilles maybe you should just go back to living in the woods!”

what a thought-provoking and non-inflammatory prompt you provided us

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