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The End of Finale

finalemusic.com

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Re: The End of Finale

#61

Post by dahart »

prvc wrote: post #51
genter wrote: post #2

> It will not be possible to authorize Finale on any new devices, or reauthorize Finale Well that seems like a dick move. > MakeMusic has partnered with Steinberg to offer an exclusive discount on Dorico Pro. So can we assume MakeMusic is getting a kickback for every sale of Dorico? If that's the case, of course they're going to stop you from reinstalling Finale.

They should, at minimum, release a freeware file conversion tool.

It seems like the FAQ addresses this, no? Customers can use MusicXML, which is an open format. https://www.musicxml.com/

Re: The End of Finale

#62

Post by dahart »

its-summertime wrote: post #47
squarefoot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Releasing source code (especially under a permissive license) would be extremely hard, even more so with software that old. There could be small 3rd party modules buried in the code base whose original developer is impossible to find, or could have passed years ago and they have no ways to contact anyone who owns the rights, let alone have everyone of them agree on open sourcing and under which license. There would b…

They could just not release the code they don't have the rights to, and release the code they do have rights to

What would that achieve? Why would anyone want a pile of old code that can never build or run?

Re: The End of Finale

#63

Post by dahart »

macmac wrote: post #55
Earw0rm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why must they have agreed on price? Only Steinberg/Dorico are making a sale, I don't see any reason to think Finale are forcing their hand on price. More likely it's Finale says "offer a good price to our users, and in return we'll promote it to our user-base", and Steinberg decide what that price will be. Confirmation that the license exists has to be handled a bit carefully for GDPR reasons, but that's not insurmou…

Well, finale is advertising the price as an offer to their customers, it is hard to see how they could do that without an agreement. How else could they make the offer? Price discussions between competitors is an absolute no-go under EU law.

What makes you think Steinberg didn’t dictate the price? How are they competitors when Finale is dead? You’re referring to price fixing laws between ongoing competition, which is illegal in this US too. This is not that by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: The End of Finale

#64

Post by prvc »

dahart wrote: post #61
prvc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should, at minimum, release a freeware file conversion tool.

It seems like the FAQ addresses this, no? Customers can use MusicXML, which is an open format. https://www.musicxml.com/

The tool would need to output MusicXML. And maybe PDF as a fallback, if they can manage that. Each version of Finale uses its own complex, proprietary, and opaque file format. With no way to activate new installations of the software, the content of these files will become harder to access as time progresses. They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well.

Re: The End of Finale

#65

Post by dahart »

prvc wrote: post #64
dahart wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the FAQ addresses this, no? Customers can use MusicXML, which is an open format. https://www.musicxml.com/

The tool would need to output MusicXML. And maybe PDF as a fallback, if they can manage that. Each version of Finale uses its own complex, proprietary, and opaque file format. With no way to activate new installations of the software, the content of these files will become harder to access as time progresses. They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well.

> The tool would need to output MusicXML.

Finale does export MusicXML already. And PDF.

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308...

> They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well.

Why? BTW, it can continue to be activated for a year, and existing activations will continue to work after that, as long as the OS remains compatible. What else do you think they should do after development has stopped?

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308...

Re: The End of Finale

#66

Post by jcranmer »

dahart wrote: post #57
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just announced that they're stealing back the product they sold to their erstwhile customers. "It could be way worse" is a hell of a response to that. "We just stopped support for your Silverado. You can drive it for one more year, then we're coming to take it out of your garage. We have a deal with Ford for you to get an F-150 with a discount." "It could be way worse, at least I get to use it for another year,…

What’s with the outrage? Do you own a Finale license? I’m sorry if you do, this does suck for people who still want to use Finale, but “stealing back” seems like hyperbole. The product (along with their income stream related to it) is shutting down permanently. It died, and no amount of commentary is going to bring it back. Assuming you have a vested interest in the outcome here, what do you actually want to have hap…

If you do a quick read of the announcement, it sounds at first like "after next year, it's impossible to use Finale anymore" (a closer read indicates that what goes away is the ability to activate a Finale install, so existing copies will keep working until you get a new computer). And for a lot of people, those who are reading the announcement that way, this is going to be a "my library of scores becomes permanently and completely inaccessible" situation. Especially because, to my knowledge, no one has a working Finale music file -> their own music file converter (people have working converters from MusicXML, but you have to open up Finale to convert from its format to MusicXML, and Finale only added MusicXML support relatively recently).

It's this library archival stranding that is driving a lot of outrage from some quarters, especially if you're misreading the announcement, as noted above.

Re: The End of Finale

#67

Post by dahart »

jcranmer wrote: post #66
dahart wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s with the outrage? Do you own a Finale license? I’m sorry if you do, this does suck for people who still want to use Finale, but “stealing back” seems like hyperbole. The product (along with their income stream related to it) is shutting down permanently. It died, and no amount of commentary is going to bring it back. Assuming you have a vested interest in the outcome here, what do you actually want to have hap…

If you do a quick read of the announcement, it sounds at first like "after next year, it's impossible to use Finale anymore" (a closer read indicates that what goes away is the ability to activate a Finale install, so existing copies will keep working until you get a new computer). And for a lot of people, those who are reading the announcement that way, this is going to be a "my library of scores becomes permanently…

That’s a great point, and I’m happy to overlook any initial misunderstandings. I would be very concerned as well if I had a Finale library, even knowing MusicXML might be available. I don’t have a Finale library, but I know at least one composer who does and is probably freaking out right now. I’m going to call him today.

Re: The End of Finale

#68

Post by prvc »

dahart wrote: post #65
prvc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tool would need to output MusicXML. And maybe PDF as a fallback, if they can manage that. Each version of Finale uses its own complex, proprietary, and opaque file format. With no way to activate new installations of the software, the content of these files will become harder to access as time progresses. They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well.

> The tool would need to output MusicXML. Finale does export MusicXML already. And PDF. https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308... > They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well. Why? BTW, it can continue to be activated for a year, and existing activations will continue to work after that, as long as the OS remains compatible. What else do you think they should…

And after that period, in one year and one day, any new installation of Finale will be impossible to activate without a keygen (and I am not aware of any having been released, so far, that work with the "final" version). This will make it impossible to recover the contents of .mus and .musx files by users who do not already have a previous working installation of Finale.

Re: The End of Finale

#69

Post by dahart »

prvc wrote: post #68
dahart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tool would need to output MusicXML. Finale does export MusicXML already. And PDF. https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/258438881308... > They should do more to allow the software to continue to be activated, as well. Why? BTW, it can continue to be activated for a year, and existing activations will continue to work after that, as long as the OS remains compatible. What else do you think they should…

And after that period, in one year and one day, any new installation of Finale will be impossible to activate without a keygen (and I am not aware of any having been released, so far, that work with the "final" version). This will make it impossible to recover the contents of .mus and .musx files by users who do not already have a previous working installation of Finale.

Yes, that’s correct. The time is now to convert your Finale files, not a year from now. You could easily get stuck before a year is up due to OS upgrades. And you will get stuck eventually for the exact same reason, OS incompatibilities are coming, guaranteed. Finale is officially dead. Right now while it’s still working is when people should archive the contents of their files.

Circling back to your top comment, my point is that the tools to do this already exist. No new tools or freeware is needed, the exporters are already there.

Re: The End of Finale

#70

Post by Clamchop »

dahart wrote: post #22
pclmulqdq wrote: post #10

I switched from Finale to Dorico about a year ago. It was like night and day in terms of user-friendliness. Finale felt heavily loaded down with legacy garbage. On Windows, it (really the Aria player) insisted on complete ownership of my audio output, too, which was a real pain.

> Finale felt heavily loaded down with legacy garbage It seems like the letter fully confirms & validates your feeling. ;) There’s just no GUI software started 35 years ago that’s still alive and feels modern and unbloated. Okay, there might be something, but I want to see the examples that prove me wrong. Things that come to mind are like Photoshop or Word, both bloated with legacy and might be dying to web apps. Or…

I don't really like "bloated" as a descriptor, because it's so unspecific that it's hard to argue against. Does it mean the software is slow? Too cluttered and disorganized? Too feature-heavy? Compromised by backward compatibility?

In any case, Photoshop, Word, and Windows are not in Finale's position clearly, as they're still far and away leading their respective markets. So, whatever bloat they may have, it's not yet been fatal.

Other old software that's been kept current includes Maya, Blender, Firefox (Netscape), MacOS (NeXTSTEP). I'm sure there are many other examples.

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