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Make Firefox Private Again

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Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#61

Post by timeon »

mrinfinitiesx wrote: post #4

wasn't aware that 'anonym' existed. I don't care if PII is stripped or not. the answer to 'helping advertisers' or anything with advertisement metrics in any fashion is always 'No.' - training things so that there's better data on how to best manipulate our psyche / give people data to psychologically manipulate us in to buying/doing things is a hard 'No.' > Asked whether Mozilla has any concerns that its user base,…

>> allows the internet to be free

As far as i know I still pay for internet. Only free internet is with public wifi.

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#63

Post by rty32 »

idle_zealot wrote: post #35
spondylosaurus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't wholly disagree, but it's always a tad ironic to read "money is ruining the free/open internet" discussion on a free forum powered by VC money.

If HN didn't exist people would gather on another link aggregator.

Care to explain how those websites are funded? Would any of them be viable with the amount of traffic of HN (server, moderation etc)?

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#64

Post by InfiniteLoup »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #42
idle_zealot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If HN didn't exist people would gather on another link aggregator.

HN is only as good as dang makes it. There are a ton of other link aggregators out there, many more “free” than this. Yet here we are. Why? Because the folks behind this link aggregator pay dang to be here.

There is obviously also a network effect at play here that makes people unwilling to explore new options. But just like MySpace, Facebook or tumblr showed you can always ruin a good thing and eventually people will move onto greener pastures.

However, I love love love Hackernews and dang is one of the main reasons this little internet place became such an oasis for the intellectually curious, and interesting as well as serious conversation.

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#65

Post by Gud »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #42
idle_zealot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If HN didn't exist people would gather on another link aggregator.

HN is only as good as dang makes it. There are a ton of other link aggregators out there, many more “free” than this. Yet here we are. Why? Because the folks behind this link aggregator pay dang to be here.

What are they? Can you link to them? Would love to see what else is out there! Personally I don't care much for discussion about web programming really, but more general tech news(fusion, space and the related politics).

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#66

Post by pndy »

black_puppydog wrote: post #39
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can find other business models other than advertisement. The awful thing is, I'm not sure they can. Lots of sites turned to shitty ads and clickbait because it makes lots of money, but I've followed some passionate writers and journalists who decided to stick to their guns and focus on quality content with a reasonable subscription price. I don't follow any of them anymore, because they all either want out of…

Article in German about this from August 1: https://netzpolitik.org/2024/klage-gegen-datenschutzbehoerde... They're calculating with EUR 0.1 per user per month for targeted advertising. The "Pur Abo" (EUR 4-5 per month per site) are thus 40 times more profitable. The advertising has become mostly a mechanism to pressure readers into paying. The question is, can you convince roughly 1/40 of your readers to pay 5 bucks…

> The question is, can you convince

Seen recently few sites which blocked access unless you agreed for vicious tracking - so much for convincing readers, I guess.

I'm afraid that it's a new trend to paywall everything and give user a quite harmful choice of being tracked if it won't pay.

Few years ago there was an agreement in Poland between major media outlets to put an unified paywall system but it was abandoned quite fast. That was still before these vicious tracking techniques and cookie banners. People simply didn't want to pay for the access. Their tagline was "Do you value good journalism?" and it was memed out because the quality of these paid materials was considered as low. Many people complained that it's not that much different from stuff available for free. Others raised an argument that access to the information on the Internet should be free and they didn't want to spend money on this. Discussion happen, taking on paid content in general but whole thing fizzled out just like that paywall system.

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#67

Post by nox101 »

kelnos wrote: post #13
Buttons840 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without advertisements, the internet would only have content worth paying for and content people want to share for reasons other than financial gain. How awful (/s).

That's the thing... people would still make free content, and since there wouldn't be as many shady ways to monetize, it would cut down on low-effort (and AI-generated) garbage. The internet would be such a better place. We would probably lose some good stuff, or see it moved behind paywalls. That would be a shame, but I think it would be worth it.

I'm pretty confident that without advertising, the majority of YouTube channels people love most would not exist.

maybe overall that would be a good thing as there's so much trash too

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#68

Post by DonHopkins »

the_third_wave wrote: post #17
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #10

Really sad to see Firefox’s direction but also not sure how they should be funded to avoid these things. I’m also not sure that the web can be made into something different unless web standards aren’t freed of influence by giants like Google

They should concentrate on developing the browser and get out of political activism entirely. Use the rather large amount of money they already have as an investment fund to finance a slimmed-down operation while also soliciting donations from users and some select companies. Ditch the large administrative staff they gained during the Baker years, swap some of them out for developers. They should not try to be a PAC,…

[flagged]

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#69

Post by mrweasel »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #34
mrinfinitiesx wrote: post #4

wasn't aware that 'anonym' existed. I don't care if PII is stripped or not. the answer to 'helping advertisers' or anything with advertisement metrics in any fashion is always 'No.' - training things so that there's better data on how to best manipulate our psyche / give people data to psychologically manipulate us in to buying/doing things is a hard 'No.' > Asked whether Mozilla has any concerns that its user base,…

> They can find other business models other than advertisement. The awful thing is, I'm not sure they can. Lots of sites turned to shitty ads and clickbait because it makes lots of money, but I've followed some passionate writers and journalists who decided to stick to their guns and focus on quality content with a reasonable subscription price. I don't follow any of them anymore, because they all either want out of…

> The awful thing is, I'm not sure they can.

It might be one of those things that are extremely painful at first, but becomes better when things have settled down.

All that sites that have turned to clickbait and scammy ads, wouldn't we be better of without them? If the ad market where to collapse the real newspapers, who still have actual subscribers would still be around, things like the BBC and other local and tax/license funded media would still be around and assuming that the free market is actually a thing, companies would emerge to plug the holes left be the clickbait sites, at a price.

As it stands we're seeing those with the means paying for actual content and everyone else is just getting absolute garbage.

msn.com is my favorite example, why is that still around? Most of the ads are actual scams, all article link to other sites, which are equally scammy. Why? Because it makes Microsoft money and they do not care about their users getting scammed, as long as they get their cut.

I don't think ads should be the main way we fund content online, it's clearly not working anymore. The ad space has become the product and whatever content remains is just enough to trick people to going to the site and clicking a link or two. The content is no longer about enlightening or even entertaining, it's about trapping people in some twisted hedonic treadmill.

Re: Make Firefox Private Again

#70

Post by efilife »

willywanker wrote: post #38

Or use Pale Moon, forked long ago and developed independently, that respects your privacy out of the box without needing 50 different 'hardening' Arkenfox type changes or having to keep watch every time Mozilla tries to screw over end users like this. Zero telemetry, zero advertising and no mental gymnastics over how we're financially dependent on Google but still value your privacy. And bonus, it retains XUL extensi…

https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/palemoon

This article is 5 years old and I'm not sure whether it's accurate anymore, but might be worth checking to be sure we are completely private.

I also remember some drama about pale moon's author despising TOR and not wanting uBlock to work

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