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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#61

Post by DSMan195276 »

zo1 wrote: post #22
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

[flagged]

The problem is that you can't run a large engineering department based on "Bob says Steve isn't that good". It just doesn't scale, that's the whole reason metrics get introduced.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#62

Post by darth_avocado »

desperate wrote: post #53
whatshisface wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our GDP is about 50x higher now than it was then, in real terms.

Yeah but money can't pay for skill that doesn't exist anymore.

Ohh but it can. The downfall of Boeing has literally been because it prioritized not paying money for skill that definitely exists.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#63

Post by dgoodell »

gttalbot wrote: post #13

Why is this not cancelled?

Probably the same reason the Space Shuttle wasn't cancelled even through pretty early on it was clear that it didn't make sense.

Upper management decisions are seldom made for good technical reasons.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#65

Post by dgfitz »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

> Welders are highly qualified and well-paid craftsmen.

They’re not. You must be one of those people that hears something once and quotes it as gospel. My BIL did that yesterday: “nfl viewership has been down because of all the different platforms, and it’s been trending down for years.” As it so happens, last year was their second-best year of ratings since ratings were tracked. But, it fit his narrative, facts be damned.

“We all see the welding school advertisements: Make Over $100,000 As a Welder! And while it’s true that skilled welders are among the most sought-after workers in the job market, the average welder is bringing in $48,000 per year, a far cry from six figures.” [0]

[0] https://primeweld.com/blogs/news/how-much-do-welders-make-in....

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#66

Post by pjscott »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #24
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

Having NASA come and test stuff.. Creates a 'see what sticks' kind of attitude. Eat your own dogfood

The obvious patch for this is to have monetary penalties for failing inspection written into the contract, so that submitting shoddy work has a price measured in dollars. Money is the unit of caring, at least at a corporate scale, so there needs to be money involved if you want them to care systematically.

(I don’t know if NASA already does this. They might.)

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#67

Post by akira2501 »

desperate wrote: post #53
whatshisface wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our GDP is about 50x higher now than it was then, in real terms.

Yeah but money can't pay for skill that doesn't exist anymore.

I really think it's worth it to go back and read the original Apollo program proposals, technical conference memos, and NASA administrative plans to see the history of the program and how something like this gets off the ground in the first place.

The US was not a bastion of technical capability or well educated people in the 1950s. To say that the "skill doesn't exist anymore" suggests a misunderstanding of "where it comes from" in the first place.

You can do the same thing for Apollo as you can for the Shuttle. The process of reading through these histories, from front to back, is incredibly enlightening, and shows just how with determination alone you can build something like this from scratch.

That being said.. it really also helps if there's a dual purpose use for the military.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#69

Post by umeshunni »

darth_avocado wrote: post #64
vlark wrote: post #58

What killed American expertise? Middle management.

More than middle management, it was extreme financialization.

Lack of adequate STEM education in US schools --> more liberal arts majors --> more MBAs --> low value for engineering fundamentals and higher value for financialization --> Oh crap, MBAs can't send stuff to space?

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#70

Post by mr90210 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #59

It could just stop at hindering. I think it's safe to say at this point that Boeing is hindering Americans. Full stop. I'm a very proud American, my grandfather worked on Apollo, and was a submariner in WWII. Recently Boeing has not made me proud.

Off-topic: Dear proud American, pls loosen up your immigration rules for highly-skilled workers who despite the last years would still be very grateful to move to America.

We want our grandchildren to one day also be proud Americans.

Cheers, A friend from abroad who still believes in America

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