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Apple is America's semiconductor problem

semiconductor-digest.com

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Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#61

Post by jocaal »

duxup wrote: post #32

I have zero doubt Apple's influence is considerable and maybe monopolistic or something like that in a number of ways. But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I have no idea what some of the tidbits thrown in about the apple watch has anything to do with the topic. Let alone some of the heavy handed lines…

> But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs?

I urge you to look at the earnings of some of the most popular chip manufacturers and then look at the earnings of apple (also ignore nvidia as it is an obvious outlier). Creating a modern chip fab takes A LOT of money and is simply impossible when some of the most popular semi companies struggle to even make a small profit. TSMC's fabless business model allows many chip companies to share the capital investment required, but apple just straight up has the money to make the investments but choose not too. Also it would be quite scary if apple is allowed that type of vertical integration.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#62

Post by peppertree »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #45
peppertree wrote: post #21

Apple is a proxy of what people want. The Soviet has already tried top down supply chain management and it did not work.

When companies are so big that their value is measured in the trillions I think the line between the two is blurry. These companies are managed top down internally after all, so they’re just a smaller “Soviet” situation.

The key difference is corporations are managed top down by competent actors that understand the market, and there's consequence to mismanagement.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#64

Post by zamadatix »

Arn_Thor wrote: post #48
diggan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the focus is on another company? Just because you talk about Boeing doesn't mean you need to bring up every single competitor to Boeing, no?

Apple was an Intel customer. Talking about Apple’s role in the semiconductor sector MUST include Intel because one must explain how and why Apple decided to develop their own (first mobile, then computer) chips in the first place instead of sticking with Intel. Why is Intel not competitive? THAT question seems much more pertinent to America’s chip travails

I don't think chip design conversation, particularly for mobile, really have much to do with the semiconductor production conversation. Sticking with that theme when Apple was doing their own mobile CPUs with ARM Intel's semiconductor fab capabilities were industry leading.

I think Intel probably deserves a mention in the article but that line of question feels like the wrong angle of approach for it.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#65

Post by pier25 »

wrsh07 wrote: post #5

If you're talking about America's semiconductor problem and not mentioning Intel even once, your view is horribly horribly slanted

Or Qualcomm. Globally there are way more Android phones sold than iPhones (Samsung + Xiaomi + Oppo + etc).

https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-smartphone-market-q1...

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#66

Post by Jtsummers »

Arn_Thor wrote: post #48
diggan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the focus is on another company? Just because you talk about Boeing doesn't mean you need to bring up every single competitor to Boeing, no?

Apple was an Intel customer. Talking about Apple’s role in the semiconductor sector MUST include Intel because one must explain how and why Apple decided to develop their own (first mobile, then computer) chips in the first place instead of sticking with Intel. Why is Intel not competitive? THAT question seems much more pertinent to America’s chip travails

> one must explain how and why Apple decided to develop their own (first mobile, then computer) chips in the first place instead of sticking with Intel.

Re mobile:

1. Timelines. Apple only transitioned to Intel in 2006 on their computer side, the first iPhone was announced in 2006. As a company they had little overall Intel experience. There was no "sticking with Intel" because they'd just switched to Intel concurrent with the development and release of the iPhone

2. iPod. Apple's prior mobile devices were already using ARM processors. That's a lot of experience and existing supply chain connections to take advantage of.

3. Mobile Intel chips sucked. They drew too much power and were not suitable at that time for a mobile device like a phone (already more power hungry with the wireless components compared to something like an iPod).

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#67

Post by malkosta »

The idea that introducing more regulations will foster the U.S. semiconductor industry doesn’t make sense. History shows that heavy regulation often stifles competition and innovation, leading to stagnation—similar to what happened in Russia’s outdated industries. Instead of imposing more rules that could entrench dominant players, the focus should be on creating an environment that encourages competition and innovation. Overregulation risks making the U.S. chip industry less competitive globally, which would undermine efforts to revitalize it.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#68

Post by p1necone »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

I imagine sales numbers and profits are publicly available information, whereas actual # of units produced is likely not an easy number to find?

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#69

Post by pie420 »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

units sold dont matter when the competition is selling $100 smartphones at a loss. The fact that one company is making 85% of the profits in an entire industry as massive as SMARTPHONES should be terrifying, but i guess we don't care about monopolism for some reason

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#70

Post by kwhitefoot »

tstrimple wrote: post #55
rice7th wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess apple works more as a "cultural monopoly", where if you don't own some apple device you're automatically ostracized by other apple customers. To them apple is more like a fashion clothing company like gucci than a technological one. Apple provides some sort of "privileged status" to their customers, just like purpur in ancient rome, so of course each apple stan considers themselves superior, and to keep their…

What a bunch of nonsense. I don't buy Apple products because someone might make fun of me if I don't. It's because they are best in class and integrate so much better than any competing offering.

Good for you. That doesn't change the impression that many of us have when we see relatives and friends who buy Apple products yet have low incomes. I'm pretty confident they aren't doing it because of any technical superiority and they certainly aren't doing it because the devices last since they upgrade every couple of years.

> integrate so much better

Integrate with what?

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