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What I Saw in the Darién Gap

theatlantic.com

61–70 of 79 posts

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#61
post #58

Sometimes I like to imagine what the US would look like if we took a fraction of the trillions of dollars we wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan and used them to help our southern neighbors develop and modernize. Happy and content people don't risk their lives to cross the jungle.

It's a bit late for that these days, what with all the climate change and all that. Migration (in likely huge numbers) is coming and likely already largely underway around the world. There's gonna be more and more places humans simply cannot physically survive anymore and that alone will drive people to move elsewhere. This of course will likely lead to violence, because that's what far too many humans do when other humans try to "muscle in on their territory". It's a sad fact that unless most of the human race grows up and starts acting like adults for a change, we're likely in for war pretty much everywhere soon enough.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#62
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi OP here - this is not an argument for or against anything. Rather just a reminder that whichever side you are on, or whatever you are advocating for, just to remember we are talking about humans. That’s the only point I was making.

You may be fighting an uphill battle to advocate humanism here. Comments like "Yes, technically they are people" send a shudder down my spine. I am not sure if there are any confirming studies but dehumanisation [0] seems characteristically enhanced in people whose focus is primarily on technology - on things rather than people. Moral disengagement [1] also seems to be a prevalent reaction to existential threat, whic…

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Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these "human interest" pieces casually begin to appear, surreptitiously stoking anti-immigrant sentiments You don't usually see complaints about the right-wing bias of The Atlantic ...

At least one podcast I listen to (If Books Could Kill) seems to place The Atlantic in the "reactionary center" or at least sympathetic to it. I don't fully grok the term, but it mainly seems to include people who sit near the center political, generally view themselves as progressives, but feel that things have gone too far and therefore push against the supposed excesses of the left.

In my circles it's Gen xer's coming into an unsettling acceptance of the type of conservative you become in your late 40's/early 50's where you've seen radicalism just not work like we were promised in our post-punk grunge teens.

We still want to promote a better world but we're a bit cynical that it's possible without completely destroying what we have and then leaving the pieces for the extreme left/right to conquer. What to do, says the slacker generation?

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a better track record, tovarich. Besides, the participation is in the context of that of other countries, especially Russia. It's one thing to argue that we shouldn't pull bathers out of the lake. It's another to argue that we shouldn't pull drowners out of the rapids.

China? That seems to concentrate on building infrastructure in countries rather than toppling their governments...

Taiwan has entered the chat.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be fighting an uphill battle to advocate humanism here. Comments like "Yes, technically they are people" send a shudder down my spine. I am not sure if there are any confirming studies but dehumanisation [0] seems characteristically enhanced in people whose focus is primarily on technology - on things rather than people. Moral disengagement [1] also seems to be a prevalent reaction to existential threat, whic…

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Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#66
post #59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do far-left value freedom rights in your country?

Always worth reminding that the political axes tend to be horseshoe shaped rather than linear. Extremists on both sides are more similar to each other in many ways than they are to more average people. But of course each side projects their own vices onto the other and usually are incapable of seeing it in themselves.

Always worth reminding that far-right is just a name left gives to center.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#67
post #54
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, technically they are people, from the same species. Then about anything else is different. They are people, without technicalities. And we have a lot in common. There are a lot of differences inside a country too. In my country far-right doesn't value women right, personal freedom and non-violence while most migrants I've met do.

Do far-left value freedom rights in your country?

Well that's not an easy one to answer, we have so many different far-lefts, some do, some don't. I would say most do.

Also the very definition of "valuing freedom" can be debated with widely different answers depending on the country or the political group.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#68
post #45

Following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait the US imposed devastating sanctions on Saddam Hussein's regime that continued for over a decade until 9/11 was used as an excuse to topple a regime that really had nothing to do with 9/11 at all. Let's also remember that Saddam Hussein was a US creation, a foil against Iran. The US supplied weapons to Iraq to figh ta war with Iran that cost over a million lives. And why was Ira…

Quite relevant considering the Atlantic was pretty much the chief organ that laundered the case for invading Iraq in the noughts behind the bogus WMD conspiracy theory.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a better track record, tovarich. Besides, the participation is in the context of that of other countries, especially Russia. It's one thing to argue that we shouldn't pull bathers out of the lake. It's another to argue that we shouldn't pull drowners out of the rapids.

China? That seems to concentrate on building infrastructure in countries rather than toppling their governments...

BRI is certainly not a home run, and is basically playing the same game as the World Bank or other development initiatives, but without global oversight. It's track record is decidedly mixed, and usually favors Chinese interests.

Confessions of an Economic Hitman -- but this time using Socialism with Chinese Characteristics

> The truth seems to lie somewhere between these last two reasons. In recent years, there have been an increasing number of reports from BRI partner countries about construction flaws in major infrastructure projects, project cancelations initiated by BRI partner countries due to concerns over corruption and debt, project cancelations initiated by Chinese companies due to financial problems, and projects that have led to nowhere (in some cases, literally – such as a BRI-funded railway that ends in the middle of a field in Kenya).

https://www.cfr.org/blog/rise-and-fall-bri

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China? That seems to concentrate on building infrastructure in countries rather than toppling their governments...

Taiwan has entered the chat.

Also, in 1951: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_Peo...
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