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It all began with a strange email

blogs.valvesoftware.com

61–70 of 128 posts

Re: It all began with a strange email

#61
post #50

>the notion that a computer game company has surreptitiously and quite spontaneously created virtual economies that it comprehends as ‘economies’ (which deserve study and regulation) was enough to write back instantly Does this man believe we should have legal regulation of game economies? Oh wow.

Do you believe we shouldn't?

Assume an economy can be sized... so it's a $100m economy, or a trillion-$ economy, etc.

Connecting economies together obviously causes them to impact each other. So long as games are connected just to the US economy, and it is much, much larger than any game economy, the impact on the "real" economy is nil.

What about a much smaller real economy? Connect an economy the size of Eve or WoW to one the size of Zimbabwe. Suddenly, events in the game can have very real macro-economic effects on the "real economy". For example, uncontrolled creation of "wealth tokens" can lead to inflation, and contaminate the real world just in the same way as currency fluctuations impact the real world.

Banks can create money, and they are regulated. If virtual economies can create money on a scale large enough to disrupt the real economy, shouldn't they be regulated too?

I'm not saying the answer is obviously one way or the other, but to dismiss the question with an "Oh wow" seems very short-sighted.

Re: It all began with a strange email

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pricing isn't about fairness, it's about maximising surplus for the seller. Businesses aren't a public service, they're in it to make money. Valve will have pricing analysts that have studied the demand curve and concluded the higher price point may reduce demand but is nonetheless the point where marginal revenue from that geographical segment approaches some notion of marginal cost, thus maximising returns. With su…

Thank you for your explanation. I guess it just frustrates me because I can't get around it. With physical goods, if I don't like the AU price, I can easily shop online on another countries website and get the goods shipped. No problems. With digital goods, there's mostly no way to legitimately purchase them from overseas. You can use a VPN and a fake address, but that breaks the terms & conditions.

Of course. Copyright is essentially a right to a monopoly, how can you expect competition offering the same product?

(I'm not being factitious, it's exactly what it is)

Re: It all began with a strange email

#63

Among virtual economies, EVE Online's economy is the real deal. The EVE game economy is I dare say more developed and complex than nearly any other games' - it has many kinds of input factors and stages of production, and many of the production facilities/resources are player-controlled and their fate determines on political maneuvering, war and sabotage between player corporations (guilds). The price of most items i…

Has anyone here played EVE online? I keep hearing about how intricate and rich it is, but I've never met anyone who played it. Is the complexity interesting? Or is it 'time-sink' complexity in the vein of Diablo 3 -- as in rather mindless optima-seeking?

I have played EVE for some time as a rather unimportant pilot battling in a big corp in a huge alliance that was fighting the back-then biggest alliance in the game.

EVE is nothing short of amazing in terms of what CCP is doing. They are one of the few companies actually evolving gaming and technologies involved. It is one of the very few "role playing games" where you instantly and automatically take on a role and play it both in and outside of the game - you decide to be a warrior, you play, act and talk like a warrior; if you want to produce or be a freighter pilot, you can also do that at just as much depth. There are no quirky flame-wars over what is "in character" or not, like in WoW on RP servers. In EVE, anything you do is automatically in character and perfectly suitable, at least to some degree. You can actually play a freighter pilot or a producer or miner/gatherer and nothing but that and be just as successful as a fighter, if not more! EVE really offers a lot and each route offers a lot of depth especially when compared to market-leaders like WoW. WoW's economy and crafting is quite frankly kindergarten compared to EVE's economy. Even the first, lowest items you craft in EVE have a purpose and will make you money while in WoW, you are actually just crafting to make it to the top-items and anything below is by and large useless. The battles you can find yourself in can be wild, imagine flying with a few hundred or thousand people from all over the world!

There are downsides to EVE, for me: it can be too much and get too real quickly. It has a LOT of depth and a LOT of that is happening outside of the game, so you will definitely have to invest more thought and reflection on what's going on, it can take time to learn just one thing. This outside-of-the-game is an integral part of EVE and one of the reasons it can offer so much. This can also make it very frustrating as a beginner while people in good corps and alliances have mentors or require you to spend a lot of time reading online. At the same time, anything you do is "real" and has actual consequences. Yes, you can loose days or weeks of progress if you do something very stupid. Yes, players have lost what can be estimated to be four digit real-world USD values. To really get full access to what EVE is really all about, you pretty much have to play in a corp and then special rules will apply of what you are and are not allowed to do. If you are a fighter, there will be a military-style drill of some sort. On this level, your actions can easily have even more consequences on a larger scale. To sum it up: EVE is no idle pastime and you do not just log into EVE and "zerg" through a few battleground inebriated without any consequences or danger. But if you like that, it is pretty much the best game around! Don't let the strange UI scare you off at first. Another downside might be that you will be very unimportant and expendable for quite some time; unlike in e.g. WoW where you get that satisfaction of really having killed some mob or a player, in EVE battles can be frustrating and drawn out, often without a clear 100% winner and seldomly do you get that same satisfaction of really having killed that one important enemy... you will be much more of an unimportant zerg; later on you can develop into a very highly trained and knowledgeable commando or a very well geared but strictly regulated and commanded fighting force. This might not be "fun" for everybody but it definitely offers you a lot of things that no other game can offer.

On the upside, a lot of that outside-of-EVE gaming gives TONS of fantastic opportunities for little software projects! A lot of EVE players with programming skills are developing something somewhere for themselves or their corp/alliance and CCP created a few APIs and services to openly interface with some of the game's information!

Re: It all began with a strange email

#64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone here played EVE online? I keep hearing about how intricate and rich it is, but I've never met anyone who played it. Is the complexity interesting? Or is it 'time-sink' complexity in the vein of Diablo 3 -- as in rather mindless optima-seeking?

I've played off and on since 2003. The corporation I'm part of now has built an ERP and manages a trillion ISK (which at the legal rate is $35,000 USD in assets). We have production facilities -- several of them. We have distribution facilities. Transportation units (local and long-haul). We have combat pilots to protect the transportation. And we have the final delivery points where we actually sell goods -- both re…

Re: map

Why center is not occupied? What do long red lines represent?

Re: It all began with a strange email

#65
post #64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played off and on since 2003. The corporation I'm part of now has built an ERP and manages a trillion ISK (which at the legal rate is $35,000 USD in assets). We have production facilities -- several of them. We have distribution facilities. Transportation units (local and long-haul). We have combat pilots to protect the transportation. And we have the final delivery points where we actually sell goods -- both re…

Re: map Why center is not occupied? What do long red lines represent?

The vast majority of the unoccupied systems are unclaimable space - they're owned by non-player (NPC) factions and are effectively a 'neutral zone' that any player (with a few exceptions) can visit. The center area is all NPC space and there are a few patches of it in other places.

Re: It all began with a strange email

#66
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone here played EVE online? I keep hearing about how intricate and rich it is, but I've never met anyone who played it. Is the complexity interesting? Or is it 'time-sink' complexity in the vein of Diablo 3 -- as in rather mindless optima-seeking?

I've played off and on since 2003. The corporation I'm part of now has built an ERP and manages a trillion ISK (which at the legal rate is $35,000 USD in assets). We have production facilities -- several of them. We have distribution facilities. Transportation units (local and long-haul). We have combat pilots to protect the transportation. And we have the final delivery points where we actually sell goods -- both re…

I see that reddit no longer dominates to anywhere near the same extent.

(Reddit is "test alliance please ignore." Also, "goonswarm federation" is the Something Awful forums. They used to absolutely run the show as well IIRC.)

Re: It all began with a strange email

#67
post #64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played off and on since 2003. The corporation I'm part of now has built an ERP and manages a trillion ISK (which at the legal rate is $35,000 USD in assets). We have production facilities -- several of them. We have distribution facilities. Transportation units (local and long-haul). We have combat pilots to protect the transportation. And we have the final delivery points where we actually sell goods -- both re…

Re: map Why center is not occupied? What do long red lines represent?

The lines on the map represent stargates which link between systems. systems are organised into constellations, constellations into regions. blue lines are intra-constallation, red are inter-constallation, and magenta are inter-region (and often the longest ones).

Re: It all began with a strange email

#68

Among virtual economies, EVE Online's economy is the real deal. The EVE game economy is I dare say more developed and complex than nearly any other games' - it has many kinds of input factors and stages of production, and many of the production facilities/resources are player-controlled and their fate determines on political maneuvering, war and sabotage between player corporations (guilds). The price of most items i…

Has anyone here played EVE online? I keep hearing about how intricate and rich it is, but I've never met anyone who played it. Is the complexity interesting? Or is it 'time-sink' complexity in the vein of Diablo 3 -- as in rather mindless optima-seeking?

The best game I've ever played, most likely the best game I will ever play, but also the worst game I've ever played, predominantly due to its learning 'curve'.

Played during 6 months of beta and for ~2.5 years into release and there's nothing really like it. In the end, I got bored of the setting and I tried to get back into it recently, but it didn't grab me any longer.

The memories of the Querious region...I was in a CFS alliance corp and seeing CFS breaking up by bickering and losing that region to CA (or FA or something..can't really remember) felt like real loss. The only game that ever caused that feeling.

Re: It all began with a strange email

#69

This is truly fascinating. I remember hearing about virtual economies where money can be injected at any time through gold mining, etc, and that they were inherently unstable. Once you got the gold farming schemes that sold gold on e-bay, it created massive hyperinflation. And it totally made sense that hyperinflation would occur since the creation of virtual gold was limitless and effortless, so the gold farmers did…

The simplest form is what happens in games like Mafia wars. The standard tecnhiques are to introduce sinks everywhere and to inflate prices in an illogical way (e.g. the price of buying n+1 weapons is larger than the price for n). This is a weird form of "personalized inflation" but it seems to stabilize the game.

Re: It all began with a strange email

#70
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone here played EVE online? I keep hearing about how intricate and rich it is, but I've never met anyone who played it. Is the complexity interesting? Or is it 'time-sink' complexity in the vein of Diablo 3 -- as in rather mindless optima-seeking?

I've played off and on since 2003. The corporation I'm part of now has built an ERP and manages a trillion ISK (which at the legal rate is $35,000 USD in assets). We have production facilities -- several of them. We have distribution facilities. Transportation units (local and long-haul). We have combat pilots to protect the transportation. And we have the final delivery points where we actually sell goods -- both re…

One cool thing is that even the map linked in the post was auto-generated by a player's program, and populated I believe by API data. The color hulls/bubbles are all algorithmically drawn, and this was done back in '06 or so before the popularization of visualisation libraries. That's the level of innovation made possible by open APIs and a very dedicated and skilled playerbase (average age is apparently way above 20, unlike virtually every other MMO).
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