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VCs are liars. And so am I.

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Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#61

Post by sopooneo »

EREFUNDO wrote: post #40
mindcrime wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no, no, no... at least in my case, I certainly didn't mean to imply that I'd take any bridges as having been burned. When I say "fuck ya'll" I mean that in the best possible way... I want to have that chip on my shoulder, I'd take it as them having done me a favor if somebody tells me that they think I can't hack it. I feed off that shit. Best to give a vague, non-committal reason so there's always a chance they…

Damn I feed off that shit too! What I noticed about myself is that I would try so much harder when people tell me I can't do it, I am hell bent on proving them wrong. The problem is that much of my life people have been nice to me......I need more assholes in my life....LOL

At a high level I feel like we should be no more influence by those who say we're right than wrong. In a way, being driven to prove people wrong is being controlled by them. Because sometimes they may be correct, and our best bet would be to change strategies, and sticking to our guns just to prove them wrong will hold us back.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#62

Post by rexreed »

raffi wrote: post #53

shrug I used to be part of the "please give me permission to start a business by letting me into your seed program" crowd. My company made it to the final round for a program and the end feedback was they didn't think we could deliver on what we were building. At first, I took it as le insult. An insult against my mad pr0grammer skills. In hindsight, I look at it as: my technology may have been OK, but it wasn't asto…

So are you saying you would rather have not heard the honest, but negative feedback at all? It sounds like in hindsight you are grateful for the honesty. Would n-years of lying have helped you any more? Would you have the insight you have now if you were simply lied to and told "great team - show me more traction", when they really think "gosh, what a sucky team"?

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#63

Post by notJim »

cookiecaper wrote: post #39
jerhewet wrote: post #16

> And I see the flip side, people that are past the age of 50 [...] are not capable of creating compelling social products. This tells me everything I need to know about this ass monkey.

Your ellipses excludes some important context: >people that are past the age of 50 and are trying to start a mobile, local, social startup but really are not capable Not "all people past the age of 50 -are- incapable", just people who are so incapable they don't recognize the credibility they lack due to external influential but not necessarily exclusive factors like their age, background, and appearance. I think all…

The problem is associating "50+" with "cannot build social startup". If the 50+ part was irrelevant, then he wouldn't have mentioned it.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#64

Post by mindcrime »

cookiecaper wrote: post #39
jerhewet wrote: post #16

> And I see the flip side, people that are past the age of 50 [...] are not capable of creating compelling social products. This tells me everything I need to know about this ass monkey.

Your ellipses excludes some important context: >people that are past the age of 50 and are trying to start a mobile, local, social startup but really are not capable Not "all people past the age of 50 -are- incapable", just people who are so incapable they don't recognize the credibility they lack due to external influential but not necessarily exclusive factors like their age, background, and appearance. I think all…

I think all of us could rattle off a list of 50+ year old "geezers" that could pull something like this off, but the reality is that many of them can barely use a cell phone.

What a load of crap. A 50 year old today could easily have been a 20 year old AI programmer in 1980, and he probably knows more about technology than the rest of us put together. Computers aren't actually that new, ya know, and are not the exclusive domain of the GenY kids.

I mean, for crying out loud, COBOL first appeared in 1959, LISP in 1958, FORTRAN in 1957, and ALGOL in 1960. There are folks around who have been programming longer than most HN readers have been alive.

There are technically literate and technically illiterate people of all ages, the 50+ thing is pretty much bullshit as any sort of generalization.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#65

Post by notJim »

jayliew wrote: post #56
nirvana wrote: post #24

Dear OP: You always say the team is important. I couldn't agree with you more. The Team is important not only in the startup, but also in the group of people that make up your investors. Thus, given that we've decided your team is not strong enough to be investors in our company we're going to pass. In the future, it might be wise to hire partners who are not biased based on age, or prone to making decisions based on…

This response just proves the OP's point. Give him credit for opening up, instead of this response (which is not constructive), and comes off as an attack back at him. For VCs to make money, they need to have as many founders like them, so they lie .. exactly because of responses like this. It does the VCs more harm to be honest with what they think[1], because it pisses off the founders. [1] Sure they could be wrong…

The most-analogous situation I've been with this is in hiring, and if one of my coworkers gave age or "fidgeting in chair" as a reason not to hire, I would call them out on it. I'm sorry, but that's simply not a valid measure of competence.

If these are the reasons VCs choose not to invest in companies, then the reason VCs lie is because their reasoning is bullshit, and they don't want to get called out on it.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#66

Post by cookiecaper »

mindcrime wrote: post #64
cookiecaper wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ellipses excludes some important context: >people that are past the age of 50 and are trying to start a mobile, local, social startup but really are not capable Not "all people past the age of 50 -are- incapable", just people who are so incapable they don't recognize the credibility they lack due to external influential but not necessarily exclusive factors like their age, background, and appearance. I think all…

I think all of us could rattle off a list of 50+ year old "geezers" that could pull something like this off, but the reality is that many of them can barely use a cell phone. What a load of crap. A 50 year old today could easily have been a 20 year old AI programmer in 1980, and he probably knows more about technology than the rest of us put together. Computers aren't actually that new, ya know, and are not the exclu…

Obviously I never meant to imply that there were no programmers who are 50+. In fact, I work with some of them, and I respect them greatly.

I don't have any hard data, but I can say, anecdotally, most 50+ are not "techies" and they don't know their way around a computer system. I believe this belief is rather common.

I think some 50+ year olds would make exceptional startup founders. However, an older person who may be founding a "social, local, mobile" startup because he's looking for a career change is going to have a credibility gap because of the general impression that older people are not technically minded. If the pitcher doesn't have a strong compsci background or history to counteract that notion, he'll have to make up for it in the presentation.

We are all free to pontificate on whether this is a fair generalization or not, but I think it is clearly that it is commonly held and something an older founder will have to face and address if he wants to succeed.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#67

Post by cookiecaper »

notJim wrote: post #63
cookiecaper wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ellipses excludes some important context: >people that are past the age of 50 and are trying to start a mobile, local, social startup but really are not capable Not "all people past the age of 50 -are- incapable", just people who are so incapable they don't recognize the credibility they lack due to external influential but not necessarily exclusive factors like their age, background, and appearance. I think all…

The problem is associating "50+" with "cannot build social startup". If the 50+ part was irrelevant, then he wouldn't have mentioned it.

As I said, I read that line as an illustration of an obvious incongruity between the company the founder is trying to pitch and the perception of the background and qualifications of the founder. Age plays into this, and if the 50+ founder doesn't have a strong history in compsci/startups/whatever, the assumptions generally attached to 50+-year-old sales people will stick. As such, the founder will need to recognize that he needs to establish credibility with the audience before he can successfully sell them on his ultra-hip location-aware social tweeter app. Generalizations and stereotypes are a reality that founders must shape to their advantage.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#68

Post by jayliew »

rexreed wrote: post #60
jayliew wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response just proves the OP's point. Give him credit for opening up, instead of this response (which is not constructive), and comes off as an attack back at him. For VCs to make money, they need to have as many founders like them, so they lie .. exactly because of responses like this. It does the VCs more harm to be honest with what they think[1], because it pisses off the founders. [1] Sure they could be wrong…

I'm not sure I interpret the above post you respond to as an attack. If I were to overly simplify, the summary of the OP Post is: "We reserve the right to lie, because we feel you can't handle the truth" And many entrepreneurs respond: "If you can't feel fit to tell me the truth, then we don't have a relationship based on trust. And that means, there is no relationship." If the OP's opinion is honest and forthright (…

Perhaps this is merely a difference in perception. I re-read nirvana's post I originally responded after reading your perception of it, and it comes off defensive and passive aggressive. In particular:

"Thus, given that we've decided your team is not strong enough to be investors in our company we're going to pass." Perhaps also a difference in perspective, Josh suggested a solution at the end of the post - so to me, it's not justifying lying as it is merely stating that something is broken, and here are some steps to take a stab at solving the problem.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#69

Post by jayliew »

notJim wrote: post #65
jayliew wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response just proves the OP's point. Give him credit for opening up, instead of this response (which is not constructive), and comes off as an attack back at him. For VCs to make money, they need to have as many founders like them, so they lie .. exactly because of responses like this. It does the VCs more harm to be honest with what they think[1], because it pisses off the founders. [1] Sure they could be wrong…

The most-analogous situation I've been with this is in hiring, and if one of my coworkers gave age or "fidgeting in chair" as a reason not to hire, I would call them out on it. I'm sorry, but that's simply not a valid measure of competence. If these are the reasons VCs choose not to invest in companies, then the reason VCs lie is because their reasoning is bullshit, and they don't want to get called out on it.

1. The value/measure of a VC to their bosses (their LP / investors) are whether or not they provide a good return. Period. Their bosses do not incentivize them based on great interviewing skills. There is nothing to be "called out" for here. They could have the crappiest interviewing skills, as long as they make their investors money. This is not a contest on meritocracy, or skill, as it pertains to interviewing.

2. I'm sorry, but your response isn't even relevant to my response. I wasn't commenting on the VCs interviewing skills at all. I was commenting on nirvana's response.

3. This is the real world. In a perfect world, every candidate would be interviewed by the world's best interviewer that can see past all our weakness and only see all your strength (interviewees would want that, no?) Unfortunately, you work with what you have - not with what you wish you had.

Cheers.

Re: VCs are liars. And so am I.

#70

Post by jessedhillon »

nirvana wrote: post #24

Dear OP: You always say the team is important. I couldn't agree with you more. The Team is important not only in the startup, but also in the group of people that make up your investors. Thus, given that we've decided your team is not strong enough to be investors in our company we're going to pass. In the future, it might be wise to hire partners who are not biased based on age, or prone to making decisions based on…

You couldn't have given a better example of a defensive, immature response that discourages actual dialogue. It's also a little pathetic, in a "sour grapes" sort of way. If you had the ability to turn down VCs for these reasons, you wouldn't be facing this kind of rejection.
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