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Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

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Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#61

Post by pansa2 »

pphysch wrote: post #39
pansa2 wrote: post #34

If Node.js can run TypeScript files directly, then the TypeScript compiler won't need to strip types and convert to JavaScript - it could be used solely as a type checker. This would be similar to the situation in Python, where type checkers check types and leave them intact, and the Python interpreter just ignores them. It's interesting, though, that this approach in Python has led to several (4?) different popular…

> In Python, I've even heard of people writing types in source code but never checking them This is my main approach. Type hints are wonderful for keeping code legible/sane without going into full static type enforcement which can become cumbersome for rapid development.

With this approach, do you still use Python's standard syntax for type hints?

    def mersenne(p: int): return 2**p - 1
Or, given there's no need for the type hints to be checker-friendly, do you make them more human-friendly, e.g:

    def mersenne(p: 'prime number'): return 2**p - 1

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#63

Post by suby »

dgellow wrote: post #36
spankalee wrote: post #11

It's about time for TC39 and Microsoft to standardize TypeScript as part of JavaScript. Not "types as comments" either, but actually TypeScript, minus the non-standard runtime semantics and modulo whatever changes are necessary to integrate the grammar. So many runtimes and tools are integrating TypeScript now, and with multiple implementations, that a real standard is necessary. It'll be much harder to evolve TypeSc…

I would rather let Typescript evolve a few more years before freezing its development via standardization

I'm interested to know what are some things that you (or anyone reading this) feels that Typescript is missing / should change?

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#65

Post by Humphrey »

pphysch wrote: post #39
pansa2 wrote: post #34

If Node.js can run TypeScript files directly, then the TypeScript compiler won't need to strip types and convert to JavaScript - it could be used solely as a type checker. This would be similar to the situation in Python, where type checkers check types and leave them intact, and the Python interpreter just ignores them. It's interesting, though, that this approach in Python has led to several (4?) different popular…

> In Python, I've even heard of people writing types in source code but never checking them This is my main approach. Type hints are wonderful for keeping code legible/sane without going into full static type enforcement which can become cumbersome for rapid development.

Exactly. And if you use a library that does lots of meta programming (like Django) then it's impossible to pass all type errors. Hopefully one day the type system will be powerful enough to write a Django project with passing tests.

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#66

Post by samtheprogram »

spankalee wrote: post #30
samtheprogram wrote: post #9

Bun’s DX is pretty unprecedented in this space, and most of my use cases are now covered / not causing Bun to crash (when actually using run-scripts with `bun run`). Meanwhile, I can’t configure node to not require extensions on import, nor have tsc configured to automatically add .js extensions to its compiled output, without adding on a bundler… although native TypeScript support would remedy this nit quite a bit,…

Extensions should be required. It's not possible to do path searches over the network like you can on local disk, and network-attached VMs, like browsers, are a very, very important runtime for JavaScript.

That makes sense. I guess since using .js for the relevant imports just works in TypeScript I should be happy then…

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#67

Post by Zamicol »

storafrid wrote: post #60

I have mixed feelings about this. While I do use TS with Node.js today and absolutely like the concept, its type system is still far from something mature and stable like C#. We keep running into ceilings (EDIT: lack of completeness/depth, not lack of complexity) all the time, and TypeScript questions on Stack Overflow is basically a library of workarounds. Mostly bad ones. So if I worked on Node.js I would prefer it…

Well said. Bearing that in mind, we've found that JSDoc is a reasonable substitution for some TypeScript applications; however, JSDoc has limitations that we've ran into frequently as well.

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#68

Post by coffeemug »

storafrid wrote: post #60

I have mixed feelings about this. While I do use TS with Node.js today and absolutely like the concept, its type system is still far from something mature and stable like C#. We keep running into ceilings (EDIT: lack of completeness/depth, not lack of complexity) all the time, and TypeScript questions on Stack Overflow is basically a library of workarounds. Mostly bad ones. So if I worked on Node.js I would prefer it…

What's an example of a ceiling? Out of all the mass-market programming languages, TS arguably has the most advanced type system in the world. It's a modern marvel that they got it working on top of Javascript.

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#69

Post by pansa2 »

josephg wrote: post #47
pphysch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Python, I've even heard of people writing types in source code but never checking them This is my main approach. Type hints are wonderful for keeping code legible/sane without going into full static type enforcement which can become cumbersome for rapid development.

You can configure typescript to make typing optional. With that option set, you can literally rename .js files to .ts and everything "compiles" and just works. Adding this feature to nodejs means you don't even have to set up tsc if you don't want to. But if I were putting in type hints like this, I'd still definitely want them to be statically checked. Its better to have no types at all than wrong types.

> Its better to have no types at all than wrong types.

I agree - but the type systems of both Python and TypeScript are unsound, so all type hints can potentially be wrong. That's one reason why I still mostly use untyped Python - I don't think it's worth the effort of writing type annotations if they're just going to sit there and tell lies.

Or maybe the unsoundness is just a theoretical issue - are incorrect type hints much of a problem in practice?

Re: Node.js adds experimental support for TypeScript

#70

Post by mdhb »

LoganDark wrote: post #57
mattnewton wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before that there was the closure compiler (Google) which had type annotations in comments. The annotation syntax in comments was a little clunky but overall that project was ahead of it's time. Now I believe even inside google that has been transpiled to typescript (or typescript is being transpiled to closure, I can't remember which - the point is that the typescript interface is what people are using for new code)…

Oh, Closure Compiler is such a throwback. I still remember staring at the project page on Google Code. Isn't it like two decades old or even older by this point? Is it still alive?

The compiler itself lives on but it works with TypeScript now rather than the JSDoc comments style approach which is officially EOL AFAIK.
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