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How do you find a good manager?

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Re: How do you find a good manager?

#61

Post by Joel_Mckay »

steveBK123 wrote: post #50
tracker1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "sucking up" and being polite/courteous and respectful. For me, arrogance has always been a bit of a trigger. I can work with most people, but when someone is both arrogant and less than competent it irks me to no end. My advice is try to always assume the best possible interpretation of any given person's motives in a workplace. Try to be friendly.

> arrogance has always been a bit of a trigger. I can work with most people, but when someone is both arrogant and less than competent it irks me to no end I think this is a common trigger for a lot of technically inclined people, myself included. In those cases I generally try to focus on acceptable outcomes more than "being right". And, importantly, not focussing as much on proving the other guy wrong (which is not…

There are different management styles, and each have their own trade-offs. Some people don't see the big picture, and get mired in personal conflicts.

Generally, when it is your budgets being spent on payroll the perspectives on jerky behavior shifts a little. =3

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#62

Post by yodsanklai »

ineptech wrote: post #52
m348e912 wrote: post #33

This is a great discussion. Good managers can insulate you from bad companies and bad managers can ruin your experience in a great company. I would go as far as to say the person you work for is more important in some cases than the company you work for. Here are some thoughts. Companies aren't always clear on who you would be reporting to during the hiring process. This isn't always intentional, but org structures a…

Agreed, unless you're desperate it's madness to accept a job without having had a discussion with your prospective manager. And not just to make sure they're not a big jerk, this is your chance to find out what kind of team you're joining. Ask probing questions: What happens when there's a disagreement about how to implement something? What happens when it becomes clear that a major milestone is going to be late? Has…

> it's madness to accept a job without having had a discussion with your prospective manager

In a big company, you may change manager frequently. They may not even know who your manager is at the time they hire you. And it may take more than a discussion to know if they're a jerk.

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#63

Post by psunavy03 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #13

Yet another perfect example of not even understanding that there are other ways to run an organization All of the things mentioned are in service of the existing model of capitalism. That model is: There are people who do work that leads to the direct creation, maintenance or support of a customer who is paying them. There is a separate group completely independent from this group who view the firm as a form of finan…

With the amount of straw men in this comment, it's like an early Halloween.

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#64

Post by Joel_Mckay »

SoftTalker wrote: post #56
chairmansteve wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start your own business.

Then you have to suck up to clients/customers. And they're often way more demanding and irrational than managers in a company.

The ex-servicemen I hired used to bug me about taking customer abuse in meetings...

I pointed out we bill by the hour, and if someone wants to sit there irrationally ranting at people to work though their solution... so be it... lol =3

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#65

Post by rowanG077 »

Purplehermann wrote: post #17
worldvoyageur wrote: post #2

" Good managers have roughly twice the impact on team performance as good workers. People who nominate themselves to be in charge perform worse than managers appointed by lottery, in part because self-promoted managers are overconfident, especially about their social skills. Managerial performance is positively predicted by economic decision-making skill and fluid intelligence – but not gender, age, or ethnicity. "

How could anything be positively predicted by gender? More seriously, selection effects should be much stronger than gender, age and ethnicity, and yet there should still be some correlation in one direction or another, wish there were power and confidence values given

You mean things like grip strength? Or even personality traits like aggressiveness? A ton of things correlate with a specific gender.

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#66

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

legitster wrote: post #47

I have had some amazing managers - who do an amazing job of allocating work and managing our time to get the best out of us. But it doesn't really matter because the C-suite usually sucks. In most large firms there is a magical barrier somewhere between lower and upper management where quality doesn't really matter. For every great servant leader, you will also have to deal with someone who has no technical experienc…

Its very common for people high up to know nothing, but they are calm and speak well in meetings. Even for VC backed startups, its really about selling a vision and having the proper pedigree, not grinding away at all hours of the night

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#67

Post by legitster »

fatnoah wrote: post #60
legitster wrote: post #47

I have had some amazing managers - who do an amazing job of allocating work and managing our time to get the best out of us. But it doesn't really matter because the C-suite usually sucks. In most large firms there is a magical barrier somewhere between lower and upper management where quality doesn't really matter. For every great servant leader, you will also have to deal with someone who has no technical experienc…

I've seen it go both ways. I once worked at a large (> $100B market cap) tech company and had the opposite experience. I had several interactions with C-Suite and the level below and my main takeaway was that "holy cow, they get it!". Now, the layers between me and them were another story. It was amazing to have the experience of my manager talking about our tech/product strategy, and then to hear it from someone sev…

When I started my career there was still a sense of agility and meritocracy in tech that made it super appealing. But that vibe feels very much gone now. Of the last 3-4 CEOs I worked under - not a single one actually built a company or rose up through the ranks. All of them started their careers in consulting or management.

So not saying they can't be good CEOs or leaders, or that there are companies that aren't exceptions, but I have now worked with enough executives at a number of medium and large companies to see that tech industry is overall shifting towards management/labor class divisions. It's like the military - even the best, most decorated enlisted has to salute the dumbest officer.

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#68

Post by legitster »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #66
legitster wrote: post #47

I have had some amazing managers - who do an amazing job of allocating work and managing our time to get the best out of us. But it doesn't really matter because the C-suite usually sucks. In most large firms there is a magical barrier somewhere between lower and upper management where quality doesn't really matter. For every great servant leader, you will also have to deal with someone who has no technical experienc…

Its very common for people high up to know nothing, but they are calm and speak well in meetings. Even for VC backed startups, its really about selling a vision and having the proper pedigree, not grinding away at all hours of the night

And there may be something said for needing decision makers who are "dumb". Part of what made Steve Jobs as successful as he was was being stubbornly and intentionally ignorant on technical limitations.

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#69

Post by nohuck13 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #51
chairmansteve wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start your own business.

This is the best advice, and the logical choice if you want to run things in your own way. One could fight the inertia of a large firm, or simply create an entity that better aligns with your own values and customer needs. A tax strategy driven small business teaches people how to manage projects, and see the stupid manager/worker BS for what it is... no PMP or Phd required... =3

Can you elaborate? What is a tax strategy driven small business?

Re: How do you find a good manager?

#70

Post by snapcaster »

apwell23 wrote: post #30

Tangential. i have too much pride, introversion and embarrassment to 'suck up'. This has greatly hindered my career ( and my earnings). I know what the sucking up process is and how to execute it but have psychological block actually doing it. Any advice from ppl who've dealt with this?

I think you should look a bit deeper. Your comment seems to imply if you would just suck it up everything would be perfect but I'm skeptical that it's true
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