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Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

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Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#61

Post by shrimp_emoji »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #60
linearrust wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example of how punctuation can make all the difference... '... and the problem is: The US is supporting Israel and supplying it with weapons. Neither Presidential candidate has any intention of changing that, nor is there majority Congressional support for changing it.' The american people are mostly against israel and sending billions to israel. And yet nearly all of congress, presidential candidates, etc are in fav…

> The american people are mostly against israel and sending billions to israel. And yet nearly all of congress, presidential candidates, etc are in favor of it. Something is awry with representative government when nearly 100% of the politicians are not representative of the american people. Conservatives are becoming more isolationist, and would just prefer Arabs and the Middle East descend into a huge war without A…

I feel like Americans in general are becoming more isolationist. Historically, that's been America's bend anyway. It always took being attacked or being sold on threats by career politicians to get involved in the world. And that's a privileged and great place to be!

Personally, I'm against it. It's hard to cosign letting the Taliban redo gender apartheid in Afghanistan and banning education for girls and all the rest. But, if Americans are determined to live in a "nuclear-armed Switzerland", interventionism won't work anyway since it needs political will to succeed (see Afghanistan)... sooo I guess I'm an begrudging isolationist too now.

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#62

Post by seanmcdirmid »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #61
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The american people are mostly against israel and sending billions to israel. And yet nearly all of congress, presidential candidates, etc are in favor of it. Something is awry with representative government when nearly 100% of the politicians are not representative of the american people. Conservatives are becoming more isolationist, and would just prefer Arabs and the Middle East descend into a huge war without A…

I feel like Americans in general are becoming more isolationist. Historically, that's been America's bend anyway. It always took being attacked or being sold on threats by career politicians to get involved in the world. And that's a privileged and great place to be! Personally, I'm against it. It's hard to cosign letting the Taliban redo gender apartheid in Afghanistan and banning education for girls and all the res…

One of the nice things about moving to EVs is not caring so much about the price of oil anymore. America is one of the countries less enthusiastic about that (since we produce lots of oil), but other countries not caring so much about the Middle East anymore would probably actually make it a more peaceful than it is now.

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#63

Post by advael »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #34
linearrust wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you and cupertino work in the same office? Both of you are peddling the same talking points. It's the same thing in every israel related thread. All over social media. More american tax dollars at work I suppose. > Pew [1] has a pretty much even split on military support for Israel That's embarrassing given the decades long pro-israel propaganda campaign and the nearly 100% political backing. But me and my 'remark…

> a pretty much even split that reminds me of the "mostly peaceful protests" in Portland. Face it: not everyone agrees with you. That's our right.

That's silly. The police were doing a considerable amount of violent suppression of protests in Portland. People even started calling the mayor "tear gas Ted"

The protestors themselves mostly did property crimes though. The "broken windows" crowd and the far right media tried to make this out to be "violence", but even the police-reported violent crime statistics don't really support that view

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#64

Post by advael »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59
sundalia wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Googlers are not comfortable with that. Lots of them are immigrants who understandably don't want to be associated with US-endorsed genocide.

Googler opinions are all over the map. Not all immigrants are Muslim, you'll find Jewish ones also, and it isn't surprising their opinions would differ.

Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide? A lot of Israeli citizens are against it, too, and only a US veto prevented the UN from condemning it

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#65

Post by runarberg »

weatherlite wrote: post #46
sundalia wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Googlers are not comfortable with that. Lots of them are immigrants who understandably don't want to be associated with US-endorsed genocide.

[flagged]

Immigrant here. When applying for green card, citizenship, etc. you are asked like a thousand times if you have ever participated in a genocide. The expectation is that if you say yes, they will deny the application.

There is a morality issue at play here for sure, but there is also an actual personal risk people are taking by knowingly contributing to tech which is used in an ongoing genocide.

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#66

Post by seanmcdirmid »

advael wrote: post #64
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googler opinions are all over the map. Not all immigrants are Muslim, you'll find Jewish ones also, and it isn't surprising their opinions would differ.

Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide? A lot of Israeli citizens are against it, too, and only a US veto prevented the UN from condemning it

> Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide?

No, mostly Muslims see the use of your own people as human shields as very distasteful, and are more likely to blame Hamas for high Palestinian casualties than the IDF. In fact, bringing up IDF's supposed atrocities without also addressing Hamas's willingness to "fight to the last Gazan" seems very disingenuous.

What did Gazans think would happen after October 7th? And the response seems to have been "We must support Hamas even more", I don't know, eventually they need to address that, or they are going to lose the support and sympathy of everyone outside of the Muslim world.

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#67

Post by advael »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #66
advael wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide? A lot of Israeli citizens are against it, too, and only a US veto prevented the UN from condemning it

> Is your implication that only muslims would oppose the IDF's genocide? No, mostly Muslims see the use of your own people as human shields as very distasteful, and are more likely to blame Hamas for high Palestinian casualties than the IDF. In fact, bringing up IDF's supposed atrocities without also addressing Hamas's willingness to "fight to the last Gazan" seems very disingenuous. What did Gazans think would happe…

This reeks of propaganda - I don't accept the nonsensical premise that a terrorist group is somehow forcing a vastly superior military force to kill this indiscriminately, and I especially don't buy that civilians somehow invite their own deaths by not supporting the regime that is actively killing them right now. I think most people, regardless of religion, nationality, creed, or ethnicity, find the way the IDF is going about this appalling

Also, as a minor side-note, you manage to contradict yourself even in this short reply, first claiming that muslims by and large don't support Gaza, but then concluding by claiming that somehow the Gazans being bombed in their homes are behaving so egregiously that they'll soon lose the support of everyone "outside of the Muslim world". I'm not surprised you can't keep your argument straight, as its logic is incoherent in the first place, barely making sense even in this ridiculous framing of the conflict

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#68

Post by raxxorraxor »

racional wrote: post #58
raxxorraxor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nakba was a Nakba because the countries surrounding Israel lost the war after they attacked Israel. Indeed they probably had genocidal ambitions.

The Nakba was (and still is) a Nakba because ... The colonizers sought to impose an objectively unfair partition plan (granting them far more valuable territory and resources in proportion to their population at the time), with the muscular support of their European friends. The Palestinians rejected this "proposal" outright of course, exactly as any self-respecting people would. Exactly as the Algerians rejected Fra…

Even before the existence of Israel there was an active arabic nationalism and Jews were discriminated against.

Israel is not a colonial power. The British split the land between Muslims and Jews.

The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general. The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made it the place it is today. I don't know what partition you reference as unfair here.

And that is true to today. If you look at the education of kids, you know who really has genocidal ambitions in this region and it isn't Israel.

> this supposedly entirely unprovoked and one-sided "attack"

Israel has the right to fight until the hostages are released.

The real "catastrophe" is the leadership of Palestinians, its teacher keeping the hatred against Jews alive. These are the perpetrators of the current conflict. Israels part is that itself has a problem with rising extremism. In this case it is a reaction to decades of conflict and hatred. That is no excuse but the same is doubly true for those that want to expel the Jews again and take their people hostage.

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#69

Post by racional »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #68
racional wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nakba was (and still is) a Nakba because ... The colonizers sought to impose an objectively unfair partition plan (granting them far more valuable territory and resources in proportion to their population at the time), with the muscular support of their European friends. The Palestinians rejected this "proposal" outright of course, exactly as any self-respecting people would. Exactly as the Algerians rejected Fra…

Even before the existence of Israel there was an active arabic nationalism and Jews were discriminated against. Israel is not a colonial power. The British split the land between Muslims and Jews. The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general. The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made i…

Looks like we disagree axiomatically about certain things.

But life is short, so I'll just respond to one particular item for now:

The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general.

No, the "only problem" was a bunch of armed foreigners attempting to carve an ethnostate out of their ancestral territory. They could have been Greek, Italian, Russian, Turkish, Persian -- it wouldn't have mattered a bit. It was the usurpation of their land, their resources and their rights that took issue with, and rightly so.

So no, it wasn't "because antisemitism".

Re: Ties between Google's Project Nimbus and Israel's military

#70

Post by runarberg »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #68
racional wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nakba was (and still is) a Nakba because ... The colonizers sought to impose an objectively unfair partition plan (granting them far more valuable territory and resources in proportion to their population at the time), with the muscular support of their European friends. The Palestinians rejected this "proposal" outright of course, exactly as any self-respecting people would. Exactly as the Algerians rejected Fra…

Even before the existence of Israel there was an active arabic nationalism and Jews were discriminated against. Israel is not a colonial power. The British split the land between Muslims and Jews. The only problem is that some pushing for Arab nationalism couldn't stomach the existence of Israel or Jews in general. The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made i…

> The land Israel was founded wasn't prosperous at all, on the contrary. Many years of cultivation made it the place it is today.

This belief demonstrates either a fundamental ignorance or a deep disrespect for this land and the people who have lived there for thousands of years. There was—and still is—a major olive industry. It is not a coincident that Israeli settler terrorist target and destroy olive plantations from Palestinians on the West Bank. Cities like Lyd and Gaza had a major tourist industry before 1948.

The land Israel was founded on wasn’t prosperous for the only reason that the people that had it and knew how to use it were kicked out of there, and replaced with people who didn’t (yet) know how to use it.

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