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Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

otherbranch.com

61–70 of 92 posts

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#61
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair criticism. You kind of hit why we don't - established firms list them all. We're not established yet, we're a baby deer trying to take a few steps through the forest. I would like to say that "not actively calling attention to our weaknesses in a way that is detrimental to users on both sides" is different from lying, but I think you could reasonably think differently. Since you asked: we have two role…

Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Some people will be convinced to sign up without them, but if you list them, some additional people will sign because they are interested in those jobs. Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any…

> what do you have to lose by listing the jobs?

Because that makes Otherbranch no different than an ordinary recruiting firm!

IE, when you're starting a business, not only is it important to be selective about what you do, it's also important to be selective about what you don't do.

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#62
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have anything to back up your claim other than anecdote? I was able to find this study: https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/15/8/6347

I didn't even supply an anecdote; why would I need one? It's a self-evidently false claim.

I’m not sure I follow, but you have a good day.

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#63
post #58
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting, but the website still does the usual thing of pushing people to the sign-up page without giving much information. If you're pitch is "we are aggressively honest" then an an indication of the jobs available seems like a good idea. Established recruitment firms list them all. No, they don't. In fact, the opposite is usually true: established recruiting firms will keep the company name pretty quiet, and o…

They don't list company names. That's why I didn't say they list company names. Generally, they list everything but the company name.

Well, ok...but I'm not sure "software engineer at a company" is particularly trust-building...

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#64
How is Otherbranch different from traditional recruiting?

(IE, the article talks a lot about how they are different from Triplebyte, but I never used Triplebyte.)

FWIW: I really like the idea of the recruiter doing in-depth technical screens and matchmaking:

When I'm in the US job market, the most frustrating aspect is dealing with recruiters. Most have so little "tech" experience that they can't evaluate companies or me. I often feel like I'm talking with a salesman, and it's a crapshoot if the job is a good match for me, or if I'm really what the company wants.

When I'm hiring in the US, it's a lot easier to work with overseas contracting firms. They all screen candidates very carefully, and only present candidates that are probably capable of doing the job. In contrast, recruiters for US-based employees perform very little filtering, so we end up interviewing a lot more poorly-chosen candidates.

IE, as both a candidate and someone who's hired: I want the recruiting firm to do more "work:" Better filtering, better matchmaking, and better technical knowledge. I don't want to deal with "salesman."

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#65
post #64

How is Otherbranch different from traditional recruiting? (IE, the article talks a lot about how they are different from Triplebyte, but I never used Triplebyte.) FWIW: I really like the idea of the recruiter doing in-depth technical screens and matchmaking: When I'm in the US job market, the most frustrating aspect is dealing with recruiters. Most have so little "tech" experience that they can't evaluate companies o…

The biggest difference is that we do interviews ourselves. That means we aren't relying just on resumes, it means we can make stronger, more data-backed recommendations to companies, and it means we can cast a wider net in terms of candidates without strong resumes. As an example, we have a candidate doing onsites as we speak that had a few years of a somewhat job-hoppy resume who, as it turns out, is an amazing engineer and has been easily clearing technical hurdles with the companies we recommended him to.

What you're talking about in the context of overseas contracting is essentially what we do for (primarily domestic) full-time roles.

We are much more technical than most recruiters. I'm the founder and the least technical person involved with candidates right now, and I would pass most whiteboarding interviews (I'll take yours if you want, just to make the point). Our interviewers are senior engs who've done a lot of interviewing before, most have FAANG experience, engineers generally seem to think highly of our screenings, and our matchmaking is built around technical traits (as a simple example, our matchmaking tools will infer you know JS if you know React).

As for the salesperson thing...I mean, at some level trying to pitch you on why I'm not a salesperson is a bit of an "I am no orator, as Brutus is". But I think if you talk with me, you'll get a sense that that's just not what we're about.

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#66
post #61
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Some people will be convinced to sign up without them, but if you list them, some additional people will sign because they are interested in those jobs. Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any…

> what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Because that makes Otherbranch no different than an ordinary recruiting firm! IE, when you're starting a business, not only is it important to be selective about what you do, it's also important to be selective about what you don't do.

What they don't do is cold approaches to candidates. Candidates applying to their website is - actually what they do. It sounds like they would probably do listings when they are big enough, so I don't see how it's a differentiator.

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#67
post #63
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't list company names. That's why I didn't say they list company names. Generally, they list everything but the company name.

Well, ok...but I'm not sure "software engineer at a company" is particularly trust-building...

There's a bit more signal than that. Also, it's harder for them to try and sell you into any random role, as you can tell that they are doing it when it doesn't match the description you were interested in.

On first look, though, unfortunately now basically any website content could have been made by GenAI. That looks to be what we're living with from now on :-(

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#68
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair criticism. You kind of hit why we don't - established firms list them all. We're not established yet, we're a baby deer trying to take a few steps through the forest. I would like to say that "not actively calling attention to our weaknesses in a way that is detrimental to users on both sides" is different from lying, but I think you could reasonably think differently. Since you asked: we have two role…

Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Some people will be convinced to sign up without them, but if you list them, some additional people will sign because they are interested in those jobs. Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any…

> Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs?

Years ago, Triplebyte had a blog post on the front page of this very site where we mentioned, offhandedly, that we'd gotten jobs for "hundreds of engineers". That was true - the number was roughly 800 that we could track, probably into the low thousands counting ones we didn't - but there were extended threads analyzing that number to prove that we never actually got anyone jobs and our whole brand identity was a lie.

Had you done the numbers, you'd have found that 800 was totally consistent with TB's stage as a company. At 30k a placement, 800 placements would amount to 26m in revenue; at 10m or so of annual revenue and rapid growth that's a totally reasonable lifetime number. The complaint was, I think, totally unfounded. But that didn't stop it from being the top thread on that post (IIRC) for some hours.

That's the kind of thing that makes it hard to be transparent. As much as we want honesty from companies, we (or at least a lot of us) also want to go with the winners, and we often have unrealistic expectations of what "winning" looks like (because our intuitions are tuned on inflated numbers that are either lying or selected). In fact, just down this thread, you'll find someone arguing we can't really be serious about recruiting because our website was not made by a graphic designer.

> Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any time soon anyway. So: the ones you gain by not listing don't help you, and the ones you lose are the ones that would.

The problem is that, in the limit, this results in no one ever signing up for anything. Because candidates want us to already have the job they're a match for, and companies want us to already have the candidates they're looking for. And even if clients were willing to go for it even without candidates in the pool, it's not like candidates regularly check to see if new ones are posted on a small site. (If you did do that on your recruiters' site, I can tell you - with the backing of considerable data - that you are in a rare minority.)

One person we have at an onsite literally right now signed up a month ago when we had no roles for him. We had a role that was a fit come in a few weeks later, matched him with it and then with another, and now he's got a 50-50 or so shot to get a job in the next few days. Had he just bounced day one, that wouldn't have happened.

There's an analogy here in terms of chemistry. Trying to get both candidates and companies to both be around at the right moment is second-order kinetics, proportional both to the rate at which candidates check your site and to the rate at which companies have open roles they want you to fill. Trying to get one side to sign up provisionally - and it makes sense for that to be candidates, since job searches tend to last longer than open reccs and candidates aren't having to pay for it - is first-order kinetics, proportional only to the rate on the other side. Since at small scale n^2 is Of course, none of that gets at whether not posting all our open roles is consistent with honesty. But you're making a strategic argument here, and I think it's incorrect.

Re: Rebooting (something like) early Triplebyte

#69
post #15

I mean good for them. I guess before I'd make a profile (either for my employer or myself) I'd want some basic stats: - How many fully remote jobs paying over $200k base do you have in your pipeline? Basically I have no interest in making a profile to be a sales object to help a startup, I want the company to show value to me first [Now maybe somebody who has no current job is in a different situation] - My current e…

One, you wouldn't be giving away hundreds of dollars of your time unless we had a role for you (unlike Triplebyte, we interview you only if, conditional on you doing well, we have a job you'd be interested in). So the only time you'd be losing is the time to do a signup form. But to answer your question: > How many fully remote jobs paying over $200k base do you have in your pipeline? Depends on your standard for "pi…

> unlike Triplebyte, we interview you only if, conditional on you doing well, we have a job you'd be interested in

That sounds really prudent.

> What you're saying, in essence, is "you should lie to me and tell me you're bigger than you are if you want to get off the ground".

I'm not asking you to do that, I'm glad you're being so honest. You're right the network effect is challenging and fomo/dishonesty is a common attempt to try to circumvent it.

There's probably no easy legal way to do this, but if there were a way to give like $50 bucks of stock to each serious resume uploaded, or double that to anybody who recommends you to their current company [not sure what's involved with that] then it might create more of a sense of "rooting for you"

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