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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#61

Post by vitus »

mc32 wrote: post #14
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason to not join the military. You’re just fuel for the machine. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/06/14/armys-recruit...

These days we have a senate committee approving a bill that would register women for the draught… it’s getting closer. Men aren’t enough, for this machine, apparently.

Eh. Historically, the rationale for excluding women from the draft was that they weren't eligible to serve in combat roles, voluntarily or otherwise. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostker_v._Goldberg)

That policy changed by 2016, so the rationale no longer holds.

With that said, we also haven't had mandatory conscription since the Vietnam War, and I think it's unlikely that we would any time in the near future, short of WW3 landing on our front doorstep (either directly or as a result of NATO's collective defense clause) -- recall that we didn't formally enter WW2 until after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

I recall that the only reason I signed up for selective service was because it was a requirement to receive federal financial aid for college, although it seems that requirement was removed in 2023.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#62

Post by op00to »

runamuck wrote: post #49
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

Civilian gun enthusiasts don't shoot at bad guys, just paper targets.

so then let's outlaw live ammunition, and replace all firearms with laser tag.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#63

Post by brianwawok »

ok_dad wrote: post #27
mc32 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. But women can continue the line —society. Men can’t bear children —society dies. Men get sent to war, women stay in the homeland, many of the men may not return and the women may have to persevere, with sacrifice but society can push on. If it were reversed, that society may well collapse. The Spartans didn’t send their women off and let the men stay back in the homeland.

How many people do you think are in the military? It’s way below one percent in the USA. In the last war we fought, we lost barely any soldiers compared to the number deployed. It’s bad that we lost any, but your argument is logically null. Women aren’t just baby machines, in any case. Nothing is being “reversed” it’s just more equal if everyone is registered for selective service.

Ww2 killed 3% of the earths population. Our bombs are much worse now.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#64

Post by BurningFrog »

munificent wrote: post #45
vunderba wrote: post #4

This was a really well-written article. I think for years I had naturally thought that traumatic brain injury as a result of explosives basically caused the brain to rattle so hard that it smashed against the skull causing contusions, but apparently this is something different. The way it's explained in the article is that this is actually a result of the blast energy wave bouncing off of differently dense brain tiss…

This would also explain why accounts of "shell shock" and PTSD rose so dramatically during WWI but were less common in prior wars where explosions were less common.

I always wonder if it occurred more, or, in a modern society, was recorded more.

Just thinking aloud.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#65

Post by worik »

tomComb wrote: post #60
Aurornis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artillery is orders of magnitude more powerful than guns. Doing something is a stressful situation (combat zone) is infinitely more likely to lead to stress-related disorders than doing it in a safe, controlled environment (shooting range)

But this isn’t about stress related disorders.

> But this isn’t about stress related disorders.

No?

> came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#66

Post by jojobas »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #10
vunderba wrote: post #4

This was a really well-written article. I think for years I had naturally thought that traumatic brain injury as a result of explosives basically caused the brain to rattle so hard that it smashed against the skull causing contusions, but apparently this is something different. The way it's explained in the article is that this is actually a result of the blast energy wave bouncing off of differently dense brain tiss…

From what I’ve heard from people in artillery is that the brass hardly cares about occupational safety. If they need to get rounds down field they get rounds down field first and make sure you have proper ppe for that second. And what ppe they do have is seen as improper. Not much you can even do when the issue is local blast damage and the gun design demands you to be so close to it.

Because if the rounds don't fly down field they'll fly back.

Shock damage from firing a gun might be bad, damage from incoming shells is much worse.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#67

Post by willcipriano »

op00to wrote: post #62
runamuck wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilian gun enthusiasts don't shoot at bad guys, just paper targets.

so then let's outlaw live ammunition, and replace all firearms with laser tag.

Why not outlaw all violence? Replace it with hugs.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#68

Post by jrflowers »

p51-remorse wrote: post #55
jrmg wrote: post #46

Artillery crew members who fired thousands of rounds in combat came home plagued by hallucinations and psychosis Could this problem also be affecting civilian gun enthusiasts? Or is the order of magnitude of the exposure just wildly lower compared to the military, even in the most enthusiastic?

If you ever get the chance, go shoot some small caliber weapons. I think everyone should at some point to have a baseline in their head for what guns are. Plus, I think it’d be good for people to know you can become really hard to hit by all but the best shooters by… walking away slowly in a zigzag. Near impossible if you run. And then if you have a chance to be around some small artillery, do that too. It’s hard to…

“Can you sustain brain damage by being exposed to a smaller amount of concussive force?”

“Great question, did you know if you zig and zag you become impervious to bullet :)”

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#69

Post by ein0p »

munificent wrote: post #44
ein0p wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's because of whatever brain damage they may have encountered, or because they could not find meaning in their civilian lives? I've read it's often the latter in military men, especially the ones that really believed in the mission and experienced highly stressful life or death situations. They come back and they're taken aback by the mundane bullshit that our lives are in comparison to what they've be…

> Do you think it's because of whatever brain damage they may have encountered, or because they could not find meaning in their civilian lives? Why not both? One of the key challenges with taking care of humans is that we rarely have the luxury of having only a single problem at a time.

Because if we are to address this problem we have to identify the primary cause.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#70

Post by ds_opseeker »

jrflowers wrote: post #68
p51-remorse wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever get the chance, go shoot some small caliber weapons. I think everyone should at some point to have a baseline in their head for what guns are. Plus, I think it’d be good for people to know you can become really hard to hit by all but the best shooters by… walking away slowly in a zigzag. Near impossible if you run. And then if you have a chance to be around some small artillery, do that too. It’s hard to…

“Can you sustain brain damage by being exposed to a smaller amount of concussive force?” “Great question, did you know if you zig and zag you become impervious to bullet :)”

Bit of a difference between "hard to hit" and "impervious"
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