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How to do the jhanas

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Re: How to do the jhanas

#61

Post by __rito__ »

3l3ktr4 wrote: post #2

I've been meditating pretty consistently for the last year 20 min meditations or more every day and though I've put way more than the time the OP put in trying to achieve jhanas I couldn't even reach the first one. I wonder what I'm missing!

It took me much more time (~3 years) than the author here. I meditated following a book. And the what is described here as J7/J8 happened while meditating. But, J9 happened where I didn't expect it. My dad learned yoga from a guru, and he taught me some Pranayama to ease my breathing, as I have chronic cold often. That works, but I experienced J9 (here) while doing those Pranayama rather than Sati meditation. I didn't expect it or was "trying" anything, but it happened there.

The author sheds no light in their state of learning or lifestyle. If I had to venture a guess, I would think that they play significant role..

Following Buddhist eight fold path as much as you can, serving the needy, leading a mindful life, and knowing the basics of mythology, philosophy, etc. probably will help.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#62

Post by mping »

burke wrote: post #8
derrida wrote: post #4

It is not even access concentration the Jhana 1 description. It is "just" the natural joy that arises from doing wholesome states like ethical behavior or generosity or unconditional love. (Which is good! Really good! just lets not appropriate the term 'jhana') It is great people are discovering that there is a happiness within that is not dependent on getting things or things being a certain way and you can increase…

I dunno, I think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge that this describes the (very?) shallow end of the pool but these language game land wars are profoundly uninteresting to me. This–and TWIM jhanas in general–certainly involve the arising of the relevant jhana factors. People feel real and somewhat life-changing experiences of piti, sukha, equanimity… are those, due to limited concentration, below some critical threshol…

Claiming that someone attains Arhat (or Arahant, if you are used to Theravada texts) with just a couple of meditation retreats is just wild. Because the 9 dhyana, or 9 samadhi, or 9 Juana corresponded to the level of wisdom of an Arhat. It corresponds to enlightenment in Theravada, and in Mahayana too - just not the "biggest" one.

So it's actually very harmful to do these claims; each dhyana (or jhana) level corresponds to a certain level of wisdom, and you are supposed to have less and less afflictions as you move up. The problem with meditation training is that is very common (and easy) to get sidetracked for 10 years thinking you have attainment but you are stuck. The Chinese style is to find a good teacher, an enlightened teacher, a so called Good Knowing Advisor who can certify your attainment or put you on the right track. Because otherwise it's just wishful thinking.

Best or luck to the author, but like the GP said, have some humility and find a competent, certified teacher. Making false claims, even out of ignorance will prevent you from accessing the proper instructions in the future.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#63

Post by krackers »

wayoverthecloud wrote: post #22

Oh spirituality. The only thing that I spent years of life trying to understand and ended up realizing that there's nothing to understand. It sounds corny and cliche but there's no other way I can put it. I have/had meditated for almost 5 years of my life for almost 2 hours a day(unless I am traveling/or sick etc), so I think I am experienced enough to help beginner meditators. Also being from a Sanskrit-derived-lang…

UG Krishnamurti, is that you?

Re: How to do the jhanas

#64

Post by __rito__ »

alecst wrote: post #45
ergonaught wrote: post #33

> But with just over 20 hours of practice, I progressed through all nine jhanic states. This is simply not true. It would be silly to deny that the author had some particular experience(s), but author absolutely did not have the described (quoted) experience. This "words have whatever meaning I decide they have" world goes absolutely nowhere productive or useful. I'd love it if you all would stop doing it.

I dunno. I heard a story about Ayya Khema that she basically just stayed up all night for a while just committed to learning the jhanas. One of the problems with all the stuff is that it's very hard for us to know what other people have experienced. So who knows. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Let's not be so closed-minded about it. People are different.

I have never come across a Buddhist source saying that some people are inherently more advantaged than others.

But I did come across some interviews of great Tantric gurus, and they all say that some people are more in inherent advantage over others in terms of spiritual progress.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#65

Post by albert_e »

Is "jhana" a separate word or just a alternate spelling (if I may, an incorrect one) for "dhyana" which means mental focus / meditation?

(I am referring to the Sanskrit word which is also the root for many indian language words that mean the same -- dhyaan in Hindi, or dhyaanam in Telugu)

Re: How to do the jhanas

#66

Post by __rito__ »

wayoverthecloud wrote: post #22

Oh spirituality. The only thing that I spent years of life trying to understand and ended up realizing that there's nothing to understand. It sounds corny and cliche but there's no other way I can put it. I have/had meditated for almost 5 years of my life for almost 2 hours a day(unless I am traveling/or sick etc), so I think I am experienced enough to help beginner meditators. Also being from a Sanskrit-derived-lang…

This is solid advice. Don't desire anything from the process of meditation. Just do it. Some worldly benefits will arise, and you shouldn’t chase them either.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#67

Post by __rito__ »

dnissley wrote: post #43
wayoverthecloud wrote: post #22

Oh spirituality. The only thing that I spent years of life trying to understand and ended up realizing that there's nothing to understand. It sounds corny and cliche but there's no other way I can put it. I have/had meditated for almost 5 years of my life for almost 2 hours a day(unless I am traveling/or sick etc), so I think I am experienced enough to help beginner meditators. Also being from a Sanskrit-derived-lang…

You see the issue though with the approach you're advocating? "Oh spoiler alert, you will actually feel like you are being more sadder after you started meditating.... enjoy the process" So I'll start to not enjoy myself by becoming sadder, but I just need to enjoy it?

When you practice meditation for some months (for some, a few weeks or years), you gain a piercing insight into the nature of reality, and you might find the reality much more darker and sadder than you previously thought.

But meditation will also teach you that these don't matter.

Couple that with the personal cathartic experience of your forcefully subdued gloom, sadness, worries, etc. resurfacing and making you more afraid/anxious. This happens after some days/one-two weeks.

But meditation teaches you to overcome them. After years, your sense of self will cease.

These are not trivial things, so you will do better having a learned, practicing guru and/or solid base in the Philosophy.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#68

Post by fredrikholm »

_nalply wrote: post #60

Please take care. There's the "dark night of the soul". Everybody is different. I and my wife experienced something similar to this phenomenon but my wife decades (!) earlier than me and she was completely alone. She had meditation therapy because of her cerebral palsy and when she fell into the night dark nobody understood her. I learnt a lot from her experience. Today I explain it like this: If you realize that eve…

To add to this, you're more likely to find someone who experientially understands what you're going through (and how to deal with it) in Buddhist circles, esp. those lineages who primarily focus on meditation (Zen, Chan).

Even if you don't necessarily prescribe to a Buddhist world view, being able to talk to someone who not only understands what you're talking about but has also gone through it and knows precisely how to get through it, helps immensely.

OP, I hope that you and your partner landed and got some intuition about the answer to your question(s). If you want someone (meditator) to talk to, my email is in my bio.

Re: How to do the jhanas

#69

Post by nprateem »

$1000+ for an online meditation retreat from a few guys with only a few years experience.

Everything I hate about capitalism. How to take something beautiful and turn it into a cash cow :(

Re: How to do the jhanas

#70

Post by lewispollard »

derrida wrote: post #4

It is not even access concentration the Jhana 1 description. It is "just" the natural joy that arises from doing wholesome states like ethical behavior or generosity or unconditional love. (Which is good! Really good! just lets not appropriate the term 'jhana') It is great people are discovering that there is a happiness within that is not dependent on getting things or things being a certain way and you can increase…

The description in brackets for each jhana, if that's what you're referring to, seem to be sourced from "dhammawiki.org".

> But the sort of description of so called "jhana" in the article misses it - it points to the feelings generated in the body.

I mean, they are referred to (the first 4 jhanas) as the "rupa jhanas" - that is, form or bodily jhanas. That's because they're coarse and involve sensations of the body and materiality.

> We don't focus on the feelings, rather keep driving the boat (focusing on our meditation object). Then ... boom... we suddenly hit a river bank and have no idea what happened. It's unmistakable.

I think the article may gloss over it a bit, but the author does seem to say this too - in that the meditation practice aspect of it is just a way of organising attention such that the jhana state is invoked (they describe it as like a "sneeze", in that there is an intentional, physical build up followed by an involuntary and hard-hitting release, and that they hit "hard and fast") - and then the practical technique aspect of the sitting is not really useful because the jhana takes over. That sounds pretty accurate to me, as a practitioner of Theravada for 10 years or so.

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