Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

patrick-breyer.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 330 posts

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#61

Post by malermeister »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #54
malermeister wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't conflate socialism with authoritarianism. There's non-authoritarian socialists; there's non-socialist authoritarians. They are two independent axis. In the case of the EU, it's a capitalist authoritarian project.

It's not possible to achieve socialism without authoritarianism because that's the only way to enforce social ownership of the means of production against private ownership... Edit: There is no meaningul difference between socialism and communism, especially on this aspect (ownership of means of production), which is key to conclude that the system must be authoritarian. " According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Mar…

Of course it is. By voluntary association into socialist communes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#62

Post by WitCanStain »

tomalbrc wrote: post #16
abc123abc123 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphere of life at least. I foresee however, a digital ID that will be tied to all your essential services, that you will be required to have in order to live, and that's the tracking and communication point that will be used to get a hold of you. Kind of like the c…

[flagged]

Tinfoil? That is where we are headed. To handwave away concerns about where the current trajectory is going is very dismissive.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#63

Post by WitCanStain »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #54
malermeister wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't conflate socialism with authoritarianism. There's non-authoritarian socialists; there's non-socialist authoritarians. They are two independent axis. In the case of the EU, it's a capitalist authoritarian project.

It's not possible to achieve socialism without authoritarianism because that's the only way to enforce social ownership of the means of production against private ownership... Edit: There is no meaningul difference between socialism and communism, especially on this aspect (ownership of means of production), which is key to conclude that the system must be authoritarian. " According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Mar…

Arguably it is far more authoritarian to enforce private ownership over social ownership.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#64

Post by [deleted] »

malermeister wrote: post #61
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to achieve socialism without authoritarianism because that's the only way to enforce social ownership of the means of production against private ownership... Edit: There is no meaningul difference between socialism and communism, especially on this aspect (ownership of means of production), which is key to conclude that the system must be authoritarian. " According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Mar…

Of course it is. By voluntary association into socialist communes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

[deleted]

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#68

Post by HPsquared »

mort96 wrote: post #57
HPsquared wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective control over the means of production, and redistribution of wealth.

Oh, if your definition of "collective control over the means of production" is as broad as "there exists a governing body which creates and enforces policies which regulate the private sector", then I guess literally every single modern nation state style society is "socialist" in your eyes. I must say that's not the most useful definition, and certainly not what anyone who's a proponent of anything they call "social…

Like "left/right", it's always a question of degree. There is no pure version of any system. I was responding to a comment that seems to think the EU policies have not a trace of socialism in them, which is incorrect.

Edit: and the extent of EU regulations is quite enormous.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#69

Post by palata »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #54
malermeister wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't conflate socialism with authoritarianism. There's non-authoritarian socialists; there's non-socialist authoritarians. They are two independent axis. In the case of the EU, it's a capitalist authoritarian project.

It's not possible to achieve socialism without authoritarianism because that's the only way to enforce social ownership of the means of production against private ownership... Edit: There is no meaningul difference between socialism and communism, especially on this aspect (ownership of means of production), which is key to conclude that the system must be authoritarian. " According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Mar…

That's just because you don't understand what "socialism" means. Maybe you meant communism? It would still be debatable, but not completely wrong.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#70

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

sakex wrote: post #65

Another day I'm happy my country (Switzerland) respects its citizens wishes to not join EU

What's Switzerland's stance on this (message scanning)? From what I have seen this entire topic keeps coming up in the US, the UK and some European countries and is just impossible to keep dead, because some citizens are strongly lobbying in favor of it.
Post reply on HN