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The March of Dimes Syndrome

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Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#61

Post by zzo38computer »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #50
MissTake wrote: post #4

“and the whole LGBTQIA+ alphabet was a protected class” Blatantly false. Given the huge number of recent anti LGBTQ+ laws that have been created in the last few years, it is quite apparent that the exact opposite is true. There are some parts which have been hard won, but one just has to look at how many people feel they have the right to not deal with LGBTQ+ people, even when it’s their public duty to do so (e.g. th…

> Given the huge number of recent anti LGBTQ+ laws that have been created in the last few years, it is quite apparent that the exact opposite is true. Something about this type of framing always gives me pause. Because lumping in the current slate of gender-assigned-at-sex-is-your-gender laws with laws about not teaching sexuality-related topics in schools with laws about who can access financial and legal marriage b…

> They are different topics with different consequences and which say different things about our society. Each is not simply a matter of pro or anti LGBTQ+.

I believe that.

> And it feels like an attempt to dissuade us from really discussing the issues at the core of each to frame them all as such.

Unfortunately, yes, they do seem to be that. I don't know if that is what is the intention, but it can become the result of it.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#62

Post by defrost »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #58

Systemantics: Regardless of why they were created systems exist to perpetuate themselves.

Indeed, and very much a point that the article misses completely.

Racial prejudice, homophobia, transphobia continue to perpetuate themselves despite banner moments claiming them "solved".

As these problems persist, so to do the movements to oppose them.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#63

Post by cogman10 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #59
cogman10 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The explanation is simple, conservative outrage over non-issues. To the first example, it's the same as whining about restaurants being forced to serve black patrons. If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? Regardless, conserva…

> If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? If many businesses were doing that, that would be pretty bad, yeah. But the activist demands go far beyond that. Masterpiece Cakeshop and 303 Creative LLC weren't sued for refusing to s…

> sell cakes to white people, and refusing to bake a cake for a white nationalist event.

Good job comparing a gay wedding to nazis.

> Quick internet search:

And here's the followup story

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/opinion/story/2022...

The novel was not pushed by the liberals or whatever. It was a rouge and fired staff member that decided to place the novel which ended up in the library doing an inventory. Nobody is advocating for that book to be in an elementary school library (including the author).

But this is the issue with this hot button conservative issue. 5 more seconds of googling to find the followup and response and you would have seen that the library board did exactly what you'd want them to do. But now, it's a national issue because one library had a rouge (now fired) employee.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#64

Post by Tao3300 »

Georgelemental wrote: post #38
TulliusCicero wrote: post #15

> I later learned that a term exists for this phenomenon—the March of Dimes syndrome—and that the tendency affects many other movements, too. Why, last year, did the Human Rights Campaign declare a “national state of emergency” for LGBT people? Why was the election of the first black American president followed by the Black Lives Matter movement? Why have reports of “hate groups” risen during the same decades that ra…

Your theory doesn't explain this part, though (emphasis mine): > It is no longer enough for conservative Christians to tolerate same-sex marriage—now they must be legally required to bake cakes and design web pages for the weddings. It is no longer enough to protect gay students from harassment—now these students must have access in elementary school libraries to how-to manuals for anal sex. Public schools must encou…

I still think the cake thing was weird. I mean, why would you want someone who doesn't like you or hates your lifestyle to make you a cake? You really think they're going to do their best work?

Hey, Person-Who-Doesn't-Like-Me, commit to this creative project celebrating what you don't like about me. I can't wait to see it.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#65

Post by Tao3300 »

cogman10 wrote: post #63
Georgelemental wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? If many businesses were doing that, that would be pretty bad, yeah. But the activist demands go far beyond that. Masterpiece Cakeshop and 303 Creative LLC weren't sued for refusing to s…

> sell cakes to white people, and refusing to bake a cake for a white nationalist event. Good job comparing a gay wedding to nazis. > Quick internet search: And here's the followup story https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/opinion/story/2022... The novel was not pushed by the liberals or whatever. It was a rouge and fired staff member that decided to place the novel which ended up in the library doing an invent…

Rouge in a library is a bad idea anyway. It could stain the books.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#66

Post by ahazred8ta »

cogman10 wrote: post #63
Georgelemental wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? If many businesses were doing that, that would be pretty bad, yeah. But the activist demands go far beyond that. Masterpiece Cakeshop and 303 Creative LLC weren't sued for refusing to s…

> sell cakes to white people, and refusing to bake a cake for a white nationalist event. Good job comparing a gay wedding to nazis. > Quick internet search: And here's the followup story https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/opinion/story/2022... The novel was not pushed by the liberals or whatever. It was a rouge and fired staff member that decided to place the novel which ended up in the library doing an invent…

We refer you to the Rouge Angles Of Satin https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RougeAnglesOfSat... ...

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#67

Post by satisfice »

Whatever else you think this is doing, it is conflating two very different situations:

1. Someone gets good at solving a certain kind of problem and decides to find more of those problems to solve after the first successes. Like someone who saves a life and decides to become a paramedic.

2. Someone who gets good at solving a problem and keeps refusing to believe that the problem is solved, becoming ever more picky. Like someone who saves a life and then stalks that person, nagging them about doet and exercise.

I don’t see that the first one is a “syndrome.” It’s perfectly reasonable for the March of Dimes to adopt a new cause.

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#68

Post by TulliusCicero »

Georgelemental wrote: post #38
TulliusCicero wrote: post #15

> I later learned that a term exists for this phenomenon—the March of Dimes syndrome—and that the tendency affects many other movements, too. Why, last year, did the Human Rights Campaign declare a “national state of emergency” for LGBT people? Why was the election of the first black American president followed by the Black Lives Matter movement? Why have reports of “hate groups” risen during the same decades that ra…

Your theory doesn't explain this part, though (emphasis mine): > It is no longer enough for conservative Christians to tolerate same-sex marriage—now they must be legally required to bake cakes and design web pages for the weddings. It is no longer enough to protect gay students from harassment—now these students must have access in elementary school libraries to how-to manuals for anal sex. Public schools must encou…

> It is no longer enough for conservative Christians to tolerate same-sex marriage—now they must be legally required to bake cakes and design web pages for the weddings.

This is a bit of a gray area because of religious freedom, but generally businesses open to the general public aren't allowed to discriminate against protected classes, because that used to go rather poorly for society.

If a business refuses to bake a cake for black people's weddings, is that okay?

> It is no longer enough to protect gay students from harassment—now these students must have access in elementary school libraries to how-to manuals for anal sex.

This sounds like a bit of an exaggeration of what's going on, but I think normalizing talking about sex would be a huge boon for education. Treating it like this taboo mysterious thing is worse than being matter of fact about how it works. Sex is a fact of life, just like many other things taught at school.

> Public schools must encourage prepubescent students to explore the many possible gender identities without their parents’ knowledge.

And? Is it bad to teach things to kids now? Those other gender identities are out there, why would it be wrong to teach about?

> Biological males self-identifying as females must be allowed to compete against females in sports.

This one's iffier, I think it should come down to whatever the science says about what's a substantial advantage or not, ideally per-sport (and I'm sure some sports will have women with an advantage over men).

> These new causes have been wildly unpopular, arousing opposition from homosexuals as well as heterosexuals, and have led to a decline in public support for the gay rights movement.

[Citation needed] here for most of this. You really think requiring businesses to serve gay people is unpopular with...gay people?

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#69

Post by TulliusCicero »

Tao3300 wrote: post #64
Georgelemental wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your theory doesn't explain this part, though (emphasis mine): > It is no longer enough for conservative Christians to tolerate same-sex marriage—now they must be legally required to bake cakes and design web pages for the weddings. It is no longer enough to protect gay students from harassment—now these students must have access in elementary school libraries to how-to manuals for anal sex. Public schools must encou…

I still think the cake thing was weird. I mean, why would you want someone who doesn't like you or hates your lifestyle to make you a cake? You really think they're going to do their best work? Hey, Person-Who-Doesn't-Like-Me, commit to this creative project celebrating what you don't like about me. I can't wait to see it.

If a generally-open-to-the-public business refused to service women or black people or Muslims, should we be okay with that too, because hey, they probably don't want someone who dislikes them to provide them a product?

Re: The March of Dimes Syndrome

#70

Post by TulliusCicero »

Georgelemental wrote: post #59
cogman10 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The explanation is simple, conservative outrage over non-issues. To the first example, it's the same as whining about restaurants being forced to serve black patrons. If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? Regardless, conserva…

> If you are business open to the public you should serve the public. The slippery slope is beyond obvious. Can a doctor refuse to treat gay patients? A lawyer refuse to represent gay clients? A professor refuse to teach gay students? If many businesses were doing that, that would be pretty bad, yeah. But the activist demands go far beyond that. Masterpiece Cakeshop and 303 Creative LLC weren't sued for refusing to s…

> Masterpiece Cakeshop and 303 Creative LLC weren't sued for refusing to serve gay clients—they were perfectly willing to serve gay clients! What they were sued for was refusing to provide services that would express support for a specific event—a gay wedding.

It's a gay wedding because they're gay. It's like refusing to service black people because hey, they're having a "black wedding"!

The gayness here is a property of the clients, the people requesting the service, it's not that the wedding itself was super gay.

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