Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The issue is not electing people... it's re-election advantage. The fix for that isn't age limits, it's term limits. Which would also help with many other issues that are caused by politics being a lucrative career.
If someone is doing a good job why wouldn’t we want to keep them around? If a 30 year old is elected to congress I don’t see why they couldn’t serve for 40 years if they are competent.
North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
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Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#62And 80 is too high, but it is a good test legally. If you can retire and collect money for being old, then you are simply not generationally relevant anymore in terms of your political landscape. Almost by definition when you think about it that way. 60 or 65 should be the cap. Perhaps even to vote… It has nothing to do with technology and lifespan. It has to do with cultural relevance. Sure, our society should foster wise elders who hold respected opinions gained from years of experience, but to be ruled by them is to subject your prime years as an adult to the stolid ideals of a past generation.
Do I trust people like Trump or Biden to sensibly navigate a complex social landscape with gender fluidity, cyber personas, changing approaches to marriage, digital privacy concerns, digital identity, or even to understand the everyday stress and pressures of the generation producing the nation’s capital and the nations offspring? Heck no. Even if they read up on the topic and can respond to talking points or have formed their own opinions, _they didn't live them,_ it’s not the life of their generation and they simply cannot have true empathy for any such concerns. I would be more comfortable electing someone I disagreed with on almost every political topic to office, from my generation, than some impedance mismatched person twice my age who appears to align more naturally with my beliefs. Why? Because I know if it comes down to it, when stakes are high and it really matters, when that person has to make a decision that will have great impact, they will be equip with the tools, thoughts, experiences, etc. to navigate the decision in a way that’s socially relevant, even if I disagree with the outcome.
I say all this understanding that the time will come for my generation to relinquish power (if we ever get it) and shepherd in the next, likely before the power structures we’ve created would prefer it. The problem today is we’re still subjects of our grandparents power structures. And it is so hard not to become apathetic to our entire system when it’s so ingrained and inaccessible.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The issue is not electing people... it's re-election advantage. The fix for that isn't age limits, it's term limits. Which would also help with many other issues that are caused by politics being a lucrative career.
If someone is doing a good job why wouldn’t we want to keep them around? If a 30 year old is elected to congress I don’t see why they couldn’t serve for 40 years if they are competent.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The issue is not electing people... it's re-election advantage. The fix for that isn't age limits, it's term limits. Which would also help with many other issues that are caused by politics being a lucrative career.
If someone is doing a good job why wouldn’t we want to keep them around? If a 30 year old is elected to congress I don’t see why they couldn’t serve for 40 years if they are competent.
As far as I know voting record is reasonably available BUT bills are mostly not single issue and are very convoluted so that for any given bill it can be hard to tell whether you would have voted for or against.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re old enough to retire and collect old person benefits you are no longer fit to lead not because you are might be incapable but because you are simply not generationally relevant. The office of president has term limits for effectively the same reason and nobody calls those insane.
Why are you not generationally relevant after a certain age? Would you say the same to Noam Chomsky, Leslie Lamport, and Donald Knuth?
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is not electing people... it's re-election advantage. Incumbent candidates rarely lose, especially in Congress... and power is addicting. This leads to the current situation where U.S. Congress median age is pretty far on the cognitive decline curve - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/30/house-get... . I think there were multiple issues that took down USSR, but aging leadership with inflexible…
> The issue is not electing people... it's re-election advantage. The fix for that isn't age limits, it's term limits. Which would also help with many other issues that are caused by politics being a lucrative career.
The first (small) problem is that it caused unneeded intra-party drama. Effective assembly members would end up forced to seek a "promotion" into the state senate if they wanted to stay in politics. This often meant challenging members of the same party. This ends with people constantly fighting their "allies" to scramble up the greased pole, rather than doing more useful work.
Of course, that can happen even without term limits (politicians are the ambitious sort) but they definitely accelerate the effect.
The worse problem is that all of the legislators are now short-timers. But do you know who aren't newbs? The lobbyists! Since they're now the only ones around with deep experience, they invariably get even more involved with crafting laws.
This actually dove-tails into the other problem with the lobbying industry: the revolving door from legislator to the lobbying firm. Even without term limits this happens all of the time. It's very common for a retiring US House member to immediately get a lucrative job lobbying their former colleagues. However in a term-limited legislative body this only gets worse. Not only do lobbyists become more powerful, but term limits provide a guaranteed flow of politicians needing a new job.
So, if you find yourself as a newly-elected politician in such a system and you actually want to make a difference, probably your best bet is to immediately find some lobbyists to get sweet with. They are the only ones with the experience to make the political machinery work, and they're probably your future employer as well.
So at least in my observation, the ultimate effect of term-limits is to transfer power from democratically elected representatives to well-funded special interests. By un-entrenching the politicians you're accidentally making another group even more entrenched.
By contrast, I think the very top legislators are ones that become a true expert in their field of interest. Imagine somebody who has been working on, say, education policy for decades. They know every policy detail, all of the stakeholders, all of the experts. In a world of term limits, how will such a person ever emerge?
All of the above is specifically about legislative term limits. I believe the case for executive term limits is much stronger.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you not generationally relevant after a certain age? Would you say the same to Noam Chomsky, Leslie Lamport, and Donald Knuth?
Even if someone could do fine, I'd prefer to skip out on them rather than let those who aren't fit through.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#68Personally I think it’s more important to increase the voting age than to prevent elderly candidates. Democracy is only as good as the participants. And the human brain does not mature until closer to 30. That’s also when people have gone through more of life’s big steps and can have better perspective on the world to make better decisions. I simply don’t understand the push from some to lower the age, as it will res…
Don’t most people under 30 not vote anyway? I don’t see how this would matter much in practice
At 18 most people have too much going on (high school graduation coming up, studying for and applying to college and/or looking into employment, potentially seeking housing if their parents are kicking them out, etc) to have much capacity for political participation. That picture is significantly different just a couple of years earlier, where time and mental bandwidth is generally at more of a surplus, and so if people became capable of voting at that age it stands to reason that more would take advantage of it (and continue to after that).
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think incumbency is inherently a problem. Having representatives that have experience is an advantage. The real problem is gerrymandered districts that essentially mean it’s impossible to lose, even if you aren’t doing a good job. And age is still a separate problem, there’s a different between a 40 year old wanting to serve 20 more years and a 70 year old doing the same.
there’s a different between a 40 year old wanting to serve 20 more years and a 70 year old doing the same No there isn't. Both these people will put your society into a world of hurt. They want to serve 20 years. I can guarantee that ain't for the benefit of the poor and downtrodden, any more than the district they draw up for themselves to achieve their dream is for the benefit of its constituency.
Re: North Dakota voters just approved an age limit for congressional candidates
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re old enough to retire and collect old person benefits you are no longer fit to lead not because you are might be incapable but because you are simply not generationally relevant. The office of president has term limits for effectively the same reason and nobody calls those insane.
Term limits on the presidency have nothing to do with age. You could be 35, serve two terms, and you’d still be banned from being president again … at age 43. The ND ban is nothing but ageism.