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React 19 Breaks Async Composability

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Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#61

Post by rjh29 »

nikanj wrote: post #2

I find it fascinating how frequently the best practices change, and how dogmatically people still want to follow best practices. As an industry, we spend absolutely incredible amounts of work refactoring working code into the new paradigm.

This used to be confined to web dev, and my backend job was happily tinkering away at 15+ year old code written in stable languages and frameworks, deployed via RPM/Puppet. But we took on too many graduates and now suddenly everything is being rewritten in new languages and we have an insane amount of Kubernetes config attached to everything.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#62

Post by rjh29 »

FriedrichN wrote: post #15
wtf242 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's insane how toxic the js environment is. it seems like if a project is over 6 months old, nothing will work. When I yarn install on an old project, i'm rolling the dice. I had a 2 year old next.js side project i was working on and the amount of work to make it work the latest version with just updating the dependencies and reading the upgrade docs were infinitely more complex than just starting over from scratch.…

Just the fact that Yarn seems to be the dominant package manager now when it seems like last week it was npm. What will it be next week? I truly wonder, do people use this stuff for software that is expected to be maintained for 5-10 years? I feel that with the speed at which everything changes, gets deprecated, discontinued, succeeded, etc. you'll spend a good chunk of your time staying up to date with the current j…

Basically npm fell heavily behind in development so people switched to yarn; it's back to npm now. This is over a timescale of 10 years or so.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#63

Post by anonzzzies »

sir_pepe wrote: post #49
anonzzzies wrote: post #26

Terrible shitshow. Web dev is all broken and horrible. Well at least the popular stuff is. No idea why anyone uses this outside resume building.

Fortunately it is very easy to opt out of all of this. Nothing stops you from having a backed deliver HTML and then sprinkle some basic JS and CSS on top. In theory at least, in practice everybody's brain has been smashed to bits by repeatedly colliding with the hype train. But the old approaches still work, even better than in the old days (thanks to improvements to all the relevant standards).

Well yes, but people do write for resumes, not for anything else. For quality we would live in another world.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#64

Post by rjh29 »

creshal wrote: post #37
thibaut_barrere wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that regard, my experience has been the following churn scale: JavaScript churns more than Rails which churns more than Elixir/Phoenix. I believe this is caused by “how sound the fundamentals are” (technical debt in the language itself and its stdlib).

PHP devs meanwhile: You guys churn? For better or worse, you can take 10+ years old PHP code and it'll mostly just work.

I wrote a bookmark manager in 2005-ish using security-conscious PHP, and it still works great.

I rewrote it in React for fun and not only is it totally out of date, but Github's dependabot has sent me probably 200+ security advisories based on its dependencies.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#65

Post by nottorp »

unconed wrote: post #58
nottorp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does 'rendering' mean in non javascript terms? I have a feeling it means 'generate html' in english.

Recursively expanding components until you end up with nothing but HTML.

I hate tech hyperbolizing...

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#68

Post by tentacleuno »

anonzzzies wrote: post #22
colordrops wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw it's back to npm

Pnpm ? Seems every week another flavour without any benefits.

PNPM isn't exactly new; it's been in development since 2016[0] (which makes it 9 years old).

I've been using it for quite a while now. It has excellent mono-repo features, pnpmfile.js hooks, and it's just downright faster than NPM. Way, way faster.

I switched to it a couple of years ago, and it was definitely a breath of fresh air: no more waiting for 5 minutes for dependencies to install! I still find this to be the case when the odd create-XXX-app script finds itself using NPM.

[0]: https://github.com/pnpm/pnpm/commits/main/?after=5d1ed94e6c4...

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#69

Post by lakomen »

wtf242 wrote: post #4
nikanj wrote: post #2

I find it fascinating how frequently the best practices change, and how dogmatically people still want to follow best practices. As an industry, we spend absolutely incredible amounts of work refactoring working code into the new paradigm.

It's insane how toxic the js environment is. it seems like if a project is over 6 months old, nothing will work. When I yarn install on an old project, i'm rolling the dice. I had a 2 year old next.js side project i was working on and the amount of work to make it work the latest version with just updating the dependencies and reading the upgrade docs were infinitely more complex than just starting over from scratch.…

Yeah but that's not just a React issue. It's even worse for Angular, but Vue's transition from v2 to v3 was pretty smooth because of backward compatibility. Svelte has no supported way to create a SPA anymore, you'd have to use Vite for that. It's SSR like next.js. Terrible.

But Angular is the worst in terms of backward compatibility and it has the worst state management too. It's like they took everything bad from React and made it a standard.

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