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ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

arcprize.org

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Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#61

Post by VirusNewbie »

amelius wrote: post #39
VirusNewbie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs well, maybe. We view things in three dimensions at high fidelity: viewing a single dog or cat actually ends up being thousands of training samples, no?

Yes, but we do not call a couch in a leopard print a leopard. Because we understand that the print is secondary to the function.

I'm not sure it's as simple as you say. The first time my very young son saw a horse, he made the ASL sign for 'dog'.

He had only ever seen cats and dogs in his life previous to that.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#62

Post by VirusNewbie »

bbor wrote: post #41
VirusNewbie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs well, maybe. We view things in three dimensions at high fidelity: viewing a single dog or cat actually ends up being thousands of training samples, no?

Eh, still doesn’t hold up. I really don’t think there’s many psychologists working on the posited mechanism of simple NN-like backprop learning. Aka conditioning, I guess. As Chomsky reminds us every time we let him: human children learn to understand and use language — an incredibly complex and nuanced domain, to say the least — with shockingly little data and often zero-to-none intentional instruction. We definitel…

>human children learn to understand and use language — an incredibly complex and nuanced domain, to say the least — with shockingly little data and often zero-to-none intentional instruction

This isn't accurate comparison imo, because we're mapping language to a world model which was built through a ton of trial and error.

Children aren't understanding language at six months old, there seems to be a minimum amount of experience with physics and the world before language can click for them.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#63

Post by 9cb14c1ec0 »

com2kid wrote: post #53
salamo wrote: post #21

This is super cool. I share Francois' intuition that the presently data-hungry learning paradigm is not only not generalizable but unsustainable: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, and the main reason computers can today is because we have millions of examples. As a result, it may be hard to transfer knowledge to more esoteric domains where data is expensive, rare, and ha…

> humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, I swear, not enough people have kids. Now, is it 10k examples? No, but I think it was on the order of hundreds, if not thousands. One thing kids do is they'll ask for confirmation of their guess. You'll be reading a book you've read 50 times before and the kid will stop you, point at a dog in the book, and ask "dog?" And there is a dev…

> not enough people have kids.

Second that. I think I've learned as much as my children have.

> Watch a baby discover they have a right foot. Then a few days later figure out they also have a left foot.

Watching a baby's awareness grow from pretty much nothing to a fully developed ability to understand the world around is one of the most fascinating parts of being a parent.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#64

Post by CooCooCaCha »

janalsncm wrote: post #17
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Would an intelligent but blind human be able to solve these problems?” This is the wrong way to think about it IMO. Spatial relationships are just another type of logical relationship and we should expect AGI to be able to analyze relationships and generate algorithms on the fly to solve problems. Just because humans can be biased in various ways doesn’t mean these biases are inherent to all intelligences.

Part of the concern might be that visual reasoning problems are overrepresented in ARC in the space of all abstract reasoning problems. It’s similar to how chess problems are technically reasoning problems but they are not representative of general reasoning.

ARC is meant to test fundamental algorithms. It's entirely ok to train a model specifically for this task. Part of the beauty of ARC is that it's resistant to memorization.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#65

Post by halter73 »

kenjackson wrote: post #60
saati wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty easy, just follow the second example with the colors from the test input. (if it's the same puzzle 00576224 for you too)

https://arcprize.org/play?task=00576224 Yes the same puzzle. And I followed the second example. This was my solution: GRG OBO RGR B is the cyan like blue color. My solution looks right, but it says it’s wrong.

You need to resize the output grid to 6x6.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#66

Post by ryankrage77 »

pants2 wrote: post #49
salamo wrote: post #21

This is super cool. I share Francois' intuition that the presently data-hungry learning paradigm is not only not generalizable but unsustainable: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, and the main reason computers can today is because we have millions of examples. As a result, it may be hard to transfer knowledge to more esoteric domains where data is expensive, rare, and ha…

Humans, I would bet, could distinguish between two animals they've never seen based only on a loose or tangential description. I.e. "A dog hunts animals by tracking and chasing them long enough to exhaust their energy, but a cat is opportunistic and strikes using stealth and agility." A human that has never seen a dog or a cat could probably determine which is which based on looking at the two animals and their adapt…

A possible way to this idea would be to draw two aliens with different hunting strategies and do a poll of which is which. I'd try it but my drawing skills are terrible and I'm averse to using generated images.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#67

Post by CooCooCaCha »

crazygringo wrote: post #19
CooCooCaCha wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Would an intelligent but blind human be able to solve these problems?” This is the wrong way to think about it IMO. Spatial relationships are just another type of logical relationship and we should expect AGI to be able to analyze relationships and generate algorithms on the fly to solve problems. Just because humans can be biased in various ways doesn’t mean these biases are inherent to all intelligences.

> Spatial relationships are just another type of logical relationship and we should expect AGI to be able to analyze relationships and generate algorithms on the fly to solve problems. Not really. By that reasoning, 5-dimensional spatial reasoning is "just another type of logical relationship" and yet humans mostly can't do that at all. It's clear that we have incredibly specialized capabilities for dealing with two-…

Yes really. Problem solving on the fly doesn't mean the algorithm can instantly learn anything. Reality is HEAVILY biased towards two and three spatial dimensions so our brains have hours and hours of training on that dataset. But, with time, humans can learn to be good at all sorts of things.

It's important that we try to think from the perspective of an algorithm, not a human. And it's also important that we don't jump to extremes.

It seems like you interpreted "solving problems on the fly" to mean "instantly being an expert on a completely different and novel domain". What it does mean is flexibility, resilience to novel situations, and being able to adapt over time.

Re: ARC Prize – a $1M+ competition towards open AGI progress

#69

Post by 1024core »

com2kid wrote: post #53
salamo wrote: post #21

This is super cool. I share Francois' intuition that the presently data-hungry learning paradigm is not only not generalizable but unsustainable: humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, and the main reason computers can today is because we have millions of examples. As a result, it may be hard to transfer knowledge to more esoteric domains where data is expensive, rare, and ha…

> humans do not need 10,000 examples to tell the difference between cats and dogs, I swear, not enough people have kids. Now, is it 10k examples? No, but I think it was on the order of hundreds, if not thousands. One thing kids do is they'll ask for confirmation of their guess. You'll be reading a book you've read 50 times before and the kid will stop you, point at a dog in the book, and ask "dog?" And there is a dev…

> I swear, not enough people have kids.

My friends toddler, who grew up with a cat in the house, would initially call all dogs "cat". :-D

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